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Black Ravioli Record Ground

Mr Magoo

Mr Magoo

Hello. How are you?
Has anyone tried one of these on their turntable?

I notice that the price is now £500. Still a lot of money, but it’s whether one of these actually improves the SQ. I’ve got my system sitting on lots of Townsend Audio isolation, all of which made a very worthwhile improvement in the context of my system. I’m of the opinion (based on my experience to date) that minimising the impact of vibration on your equipment really does pay dividends. The Record Ground may be the final piece in the jigsaw, albeit not an anti vibration shelf. Hence my curiosity.

I have Townsend Podiums under my Graham LS8/1 speakers and isolation shelves under my Leben CS600 and my Vertere MG-1. So this Record Ground looks like black magic, but does it deliver to improvements claimed?

Peter
 
You’d have to put your skeptics hat on and look at what’s being sold.

My take is, when I read what they themselves write about the product, is that it’s absolute bollocks.

It’s a £500 record puck.

If you’ve literally nothing left in your setup you could improve with £500 and really wanted to spend some money then hey. But what I see is what they themselves say it does:

Record Ground - Black Ravioli

www.blackravioli.com www.blackravioli.com

Check the paragraph ‘Perfect Performance’

I ask myself ‘is that what it does or has someone just made that up’

I then wonder to myself ‘if they can’t say what it is, then what is it and why are they selling it for five hundred pounds’

And I come to my own conclusion. But, all views are valid in this hobby.

The best, or course, of luck. 👍
 
Joe said:
They seem to have a "try it for 30 days free" policy so give it a go and tell us what you think ?
Click to expand...
That does provide some reassurance on the purchase. I think I’ll probably give one a go and see if it makes a worthwhile difference (or any noticeable difference of any kind). At least comparing with and without will be a doddle.
 
It’s reassuringly expensive. Anyone who is prepared to spend that amount of money on what is at best, a tweak, is more than capable of convincing themselves that it makes an improvement.

Do yourself a favour and buy some records.
 
ossy said:
It’s reassuringly expensive. Anyone who is prepared to spend that amount of money on what is at best, a tweak, is more than capable of convincing themselves that it makes an improvement.

Do yourself a favour and buy some records.
Click to expand...
Got thousands of records. Been accumulating records for over 50 years. Just want the very best from my existing system before my time’s up. If there is no worthwhile improvement, I’ll send it back. I’ve invested a huge amount of money in my final system, so just want it performing to its maximum ability. Also a strong believer in source first. So sticking a £450 ‘tweak’ on a £15k turntable isn’t quite as mad as you imply. (Got a 10% reduction).

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Just out of interest, have you ever listened to a tt with/without one? What turntable do you have?

I’ll do careful A/B comparisons and post my actual experience of this unusual tweak. May well end up buying more records. I won’t know until I try the comparison. But thanks for your thoughts.

Peter
 
Eoin said:
You’d have to put your skeptics hat on and look at what’s being sold.

My take is, when I read what they themselves write about the product, is that it’s absolute bollocks.

It’s a £500 record puck.

If you’ve literally nothing left in your setup you could improve with £500 and really wanted to spend some money then hey. But what I see is what they themselves say it does:

Record Ground - Black Ravioli

www.blackravioli.com www.blackravioli.com

Check the paragraph ‘Perfect Performance’

I ask myself ‘is that what it does or has someone just made that up’

I then wonder to myself ‘if they can’t say what it is, then what is it and why are they selling it for five hundred pounds’

And I come to my own conclusion. But, all views are valid in this hobby.

The best, or course, of luck. 👍
Click to expand...
Good points. However, I don’t care about the blurb, nor does the ‘how can this record puck possibly make any difference?’. If it makes no difference, then it goes back. If it makes a worthwhile difference, then it stays. Surely, that’s what matters at the end of the day.

Peter
 
I don’t want to upset those who are interested in this product and have money to buy it… but to me it seems that this audio business is getting insane, and very detached from the notion of value and propose.
Not only today’s prices are getting insane, but also there are so many products being released every year that is almost impossible to follow. But 600 quid for a puck!…

The immensity of YouTube ”reviews” praising each month for the new best thing is kind of making me loose interest in new products and I am turning my attention to the vintage marked. Clearly one can detect all the payed reviews…
Opinions on forums like this are mainly a product of individual passion and love for the gear and music, where a multitude of opposite experiences can be shared, and that, compared with the above, can be refreshing :)
 
naka said:
I don’t want to upset those who are interested in this product and have money to buy it… but to me it seems that this audio business is getting insane, and very detached from the notion of value and propose.
Not only today’s prices are getting insane, but also there are so many products being released every year that is almost impossible to follow. But 600 quid for a puck!…

The immensity of YouTube ”reviews” praising each month for the new best thing is kind of making me loose interest in new products and I am turning my attention to the vintage marked. Clearly one can detect all the payed reviews…
Opinions on forums like this are mainly a product of individual passion and love for the gear and music, where a multitude of opposite experiences can be shared, and that, compared with the above, can be refreshing :)
Click to expand...
Lets face it. People have known how to make nice sounding record players, amplifiers and speakers for half a century.

Of course there's the occasional new product that is innovative but the vast majority of stuff is variations on a theme or exotic tweaks for people chasing that last 1% of performance improvement.
 
It might be a cavity inside filled with particle damping material.

Eg

www.sciencedirect.com

Damping performance of particle dampers with different granular materials and their mixtures

A particle damper is a passive vibration control technology that utilizes the high damping properties of granular materials for reducing the vibration…
www.sciencedirect.com www.sciencedirect.com

An example seems to be eg lead shot mixed with rubber particles.

I’ve noticed a few equipment feet things especially Aliexpress that seem to use this.

Let us know how it goes. 👍
 
I'm still after an audiolab 8000cdm with the cdm9 mech.

Having said that my new Denon is so quiet I can barely hear it spinning with my ear on the case and very fast disc access.
 
That money would be far better deployed on upgrading the cartridge I imagine. It can't possibly be anything but total nonsense.
 
The BR record ground has now been with me for nearly a week and I’ve managed to play several albums with the BRRG sitting on the record being played.

The albums played include:
DSOTM 50th Anniversary pressing
Grace Jones. Island Life
Level 42. Running In The Family
Paul McCartney. Band On The Run 50th Ann.
The Eagles. Long Road Out of Eden.
Tears For Fears. The Seeds of Love MFSL
It may be worth repeating the system I have.

Vertere MG-1 with Mystic MC cart.
Trilogy 907 Phono stage
Leben CS600X
Graham Audio LS8/1
Atacama 60/40 stand
Tellurium Q Ultra Black ll cabling
The Vertere and Leben sit on Townshend Audio platforms and the speakers are on heavy stands that sit on Townshend Podiums.

I have been in to music since the 60s and hi fi since 1973. I’ve had quite a selection of gear in one door and eventually back out again. I’ve had some very expensive gear over the years as I built steadily from my original system fronted by a Garrard SP25 MklV and Goldring G800 (£15) to my present Vertere. My LP12 was with me for nearly 30 years and had all the Linn upgrades up to 2015.

My aim is to maximise the performance of my existing system and much has been invested in minimising the impact of vibration. My age is the key factor in this approach. I mention these factors as they influence my purchases.

I have an outstanding turntable and cartridge fronting my system. I feel that my amp and speakers are here to stay. As is the TT.

It made sense for me to take advantage of the offer of a BRRG for £450. The price of a good quality interconnect. Returns were accepted, so nothing to lose really.

I was aware of the opinions of some/many towards this tweak, despite having no actual experience of a BRRG. There are, of course, those who are more open minded and willing to accept the possibility that this BR product may actually have a positive impact on the performance of a turntable. They don’t offer an opinion as they have yet to try one, or may never try one.

Anyway, the RG simply sits on the record, with no direct contact with the turntable itself, it even sits over the spindle without touching it. The The BR claims for this device are quite substantial. The reality (for me) would not be described in such a grandiose manner and I am deliberately not revisiting those claims in case they influence my description of the RG performance here.

Does the BRRG have any impact on sound quality? The answer is a very definite yes.

Is that impact on performance a positive or negative? Totally positive!

Is the impact subtle (1) or massive (10)? On a scale of 1-10, I would say 4-5.
Now this is where it gets harder as I try to describe the benefits of the BRRG on my system’s performance.

There is a smoother delivery of the music. For example, Grace Jones’ voice could be a tad piercing at times. No longer the issue that it was.

The overall sound had a greater musical coherence. This is partly due to the greater smoothness combined with improvements in the soundstage. Each strand of the music becomes easier to follow with less overlap (confusion) between instruments. Strands of music are more precisely slotted in the overall stage. Mark King’s bass is now so much easier to follow and enjoy. The Eagles album has taken on a new lease of life. I loved this album before. Now it is a musical masterpiece that I keep wanting to listen to.

The separation of musical strands increases the coherence of the music overall. This makes the album sound even more musical and real than it did before. And the Vertere is no slouch in that department. I sense an improvement in bass depth, but further listening needed on that one.

The impact on the rhythm of music emanating from my Grahams is also a real positive with the sense that rhythm and timing is more deeply embedded within the musical piece. Grace Jones’ La Vie in Rose takes on a new lease of life with greater separation, smoother vocals and a stronger sense of drive and rhythm.

Apologies for the lack of insight in my attempt to describe the benefits of the RG.

Finally:

Am I keeping the Record Ground?

Absolutely. Without doubt. Within the context (cost) of my system, £450 for the improvements I’ve tried to describe is excellent value for money; but bear in mind, I am fortunate to have an expensive and extremely capable turntable. I wouldn’t want to lose the benefits I’ve tried to describe.

Would I recommend i?

Well, yes. But it is likely to be highly dependant on the quality of the turntable you use as well as the resources you have to spend on your system. For those who are curious or even tempted and have a nice turntable, why not try it? If it doesn’t work for you, simply send it back. I have a few tweaks in my system. The combination of the Townshend gear and this RG is amazing. The performance of my system overall has been significantly improved.

I hope my ramblings have helped a little. The BR Record Ground is a very good bit of snake oil and in the right system, is actually a must try and see if you can afford it.

I don’t know how it does it, nor do I care. What I think is important it that it does do it (improve performance and musical enjoyment).

Peter
 
I can't get my head round why a £15k TT could be improved upon by a £500k puck. Vertere must be kicking themselves;)
 
Woodface said:
I can't get my head round why a £15k TT could be improved upon by a £500k puck. Vertere must be kicking themselves.
Click to expand...
Hi Woodface
It is not a puck. It’s not a puck. It’s not a puck.
Let’s be clear on that. A record puck is designed to apply weight on top of a record to bond together the record and the platter. Some of these are very heavy.
The record ground doesn’t use weight. It’s actually quite light. It has contact through the raised metal points at the base of the ground.

I think I acknowledge that the Vertere is a superbly musical deck and an amazing performer in my summary. Vertere doesn’t use a clamp/puck to pin the record to the platter. They may well have evaluated this and dismissed the idea. Who knows? Vertere don’t make a Record Ground, so probably aren’t kicking themselves at all.

However, why can’t an aftermarket tweak address an issue that the manufacturer hasn’t. And why is it so crazy to you that improvements can be heard? I have a £500 shelf made by Townshend under my £8k amp. Do you maintain that this can’t make a difference to a great amp and is Leben giving itself a good kicking? I doubt it.

There are many accessories that make improvements (and many that don’t) to sound quality and musicality. I bet you use some yourself.

You’re very welcome to come and hear the difference for yourself. Just leave your preconceptions at the front door and make up your own mind when you actually listen. Listening does help in making judgements in the world of audio.

Peter
 
Thank you for sharing and humouring the cynics; don't waste too much of your time with them, whatever you say, they'll find a way to drag it down.

I don't own a record player, but do have experience with a few tweaks here and there; glad you're having fun with it, after all that's what it's all about.
 
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