BK subs - differences in quality?

[JTC]

Hi all. Now that I'm considering 'downgrading' from the large Ardens to Harbeth P3 ESRs and a small sub (which liberates a fair chunk of cash whilst freeing up space in my living room) I wanted to see if anyone had good experience with the BK subs.

My original thought was to buy a BK XXLS 400 DF, but I am wondering whether the differences between the various BK subs is simply overall volume capability. If that were the case, and given that P3s are not intended to be played at high volumes, would I be just as well saving cash and buying one of the smaller BK subs (which could - in time - lead to a second (though I would prefer one from a room arrangement perspective).

(One added benefit of going up to a Monolith (say) is that it will double as a side table and is large enough to hold a small lamp as well, but if I'm not going to notice any qualitative improvements over, say, a XS200, then it's an expensive side table!)

Ta.

 

[ToTo Man]

I have two XXLS400 subs (not currently in use as I'm still rearranging my room). When I ordered them I specified 24dB/oct filters and the ability to cross as low as 25Hz, for increased flexibility and to make them easier to integrate without resorting to DSP etc. IIRC the standard crossover has a 12dB/oct slope and minimum setting of 40Hz, which would probably suit the little Harbeth's fine but would be way too high and shallow for your Ardens for example.

I was recently considering 'downgrading' from two XXLS400 to four XLS200 to create a standing wave-busting swarm as XLS200s take up far less floor space. Online measurements show, however, that you cannot defy the laws of physics when it comes to displacement. The XXLS400 is flat to 17Hz and goes all the way down to below 10Hz in my room. The XLS200, on the other hand, begins losing output from 30Hz-ish and is well down in output by 20Hz. After speaking to Tom at BK I decided to stick with my XXLS400s as I didn't think it made sense to pay money to downgrade to a product with inferior performance.

In your situation, however, the XLS200's 10-inch driver may well be a better match for the Harbs than BK's bigger subs. I don't have experience with the Monolith but I reckon it would be overkill, plus given that it's ported it may be more difficult to integrate.

 

[Jezzer]

I’ve been using a (oak) BK XLS200 DF for a couple of years with various small standmount speakers - including Harbeth P3ESR and ProAc Tablette 10 Signatures - to great effect. In my 3.3 by 7.5m room, it does enough to provide extra oomph and drive.

Actually the sub is now surplus to requirements as I’ve just bought some larger speakers so PM me if you’re interested. (shameless plug I know but I literally received my new speakers today)

 

[divedeepdog]

I had an XXLS200 and was disappointed, I'd had early Rel Strata's. The BK didn't last long and Strata 5's followed. (Took a while but I had a pair) The Rels far more musical vs Bk's bump and thump. The 400 may be different beastie?

 

[Wine Man]

FWIW BK informed me at the time that the XXLS400 (which I now have) was preferred for music over the Monolith as it was cleaner/faster. The Monolith was usually bought by AV customers.

 

[yuckyamson]

Hi all. Now that I'm considering 'downgrading' from the large Ardens to Harbeth P3 ESRs and a small sub (which liberates a fair chunk of cash whilst freeing up space in my living room) I wanted to see if anyone had good experience with the BK subs.

My original thought was to buy a BK XXLS 400 DF, but I am wondering whether the differences between the various BK subs is simply overall volume capability. If that were the case, and given that P3s are not intended to be played at high volumes, would I be just as well saving cash and buying one of the smaller BK subs (which could - in time - lead to a second (though I would prefer one from a room arrangement perspective).

(One added benefit of going up to a Monolith (say) is that it will double as a side table and is large enough to hold a small lamp as well, but if I'm not going to notice any qualitative improvements over, say, a XS200, then it's an expensive side table!)

Ta.

I remember when you swore you were done.

Sigh.

 

[Jezzer]

I had an XXLS200 and was disappointed, I'd had early Rel Strata's. The BK didn't last long and Strata 5's followed. (Took a while but I had a pair) The Rels far more musical vs Bk's bump and thump. The 400 may be different beastie?

Well, you’re comparing apples to oranges right there. I used to have a REL Strata 3 and it was magnificent - really capable of deep and punchy bass - but IIRC it was £700 back in 2002 whereas a XLS 200 is £360 now.

That British Audiophile chap on YouTube does a nice comparison of his old REL with the new T7X - and the new one is great! … but it should be at £1,000.

 

[JTC]

I remember when you swore you were done.

Sigh.

Not necessarily getting rid of the Ardens though. Jury’s still out on whether these will go in a separate room or could replace the main speakers. The Ardens still do lots that the Harbs don’t, but at lower levels, bass-extension aside, they’re extremely close.

 

[Brian Ellis]

I have 2 XXLS400’s and 2 Rel T9X’s. The BK’s are fab for music, fast, deep, impactful and fairly easy to integrate. I would wholeheartedly recommend 1 XXLS400 and adding a 2nd one would always be an option, plus they hold their money quite well so you shouldn’t lose much when the time comes to sell.

I have also had Monolith, Monolith + and 200, XXLS400 for music every time.

 

[chiily]

I bought an XXL400 DF because of quite a few favourable reviews and that it was a sealed box, no port to hoot through. I use a miniDSP box to integrate it, which the miniDSP does really well.

And I find it quite tuneful, lags your 57s JTC a little but music is still very enjoyable.

 

[Mr Underhill]

XXL400 DF is an excellent and FAST sub that integrates superbly with my SBLs.

When you order they will happily alter the crossover points if that assists. They also fitted and auto-off switch for me too. Great service.

 

[JTC]

I’m swaying towards the SVS 3000 Micro due to its parametric eq etc. but it’s quite spendy…

 

[twotone]

I’m swaying towards the SVS 3000 Micro due to its parametric eq etc. but it’s quite spendy…

It's brilliant for music though I used it with Elac BS-312s I could never get them to sound 'fantastic' which is what they should have sounded like but when I added the sub they absolutely shone same now with Totem minis which crossover at 90hz and have no right to sound as good as they do but they're amazingly good speakers and probably don't need a sub but with the micro 3000 they sound amazing.

The KEF Kube is meant to be excellent but it only has 2 X 6" woofers and no app and is double the price or was double the price of the Micro.

There's also the Monoprice Monolith series of subs which are meant to be amazing especially at the price they're sold at but some of them are the size of a washing machine.

BTW, someone was selling the Kube on here recently @badger748 I think.

 

[JimmyB]

Why not buy the BK sub(s) and with the money left over, buy a MiniDSP 2x4HD and then you can not only deal with sub integration but the real room response of the main speakers.

Oh, and I was also told FF for music and ported best for AV and not music.

 

[chiily]

Why not buy the BK sub(s) and with the money left over, buy a MiniDSP 2x4HD and then you can not only deal with sub integration but the real room response of the main speakers.

Oh, and I was also told FF for music and ported best for AV and not music.

That's what I did, but with just the one BK. Sounds really good.

 

[JimmyB]

There's no getting away from the fact that BK are direct sellers so you're getting a product that hasn't had dealers markup applied, is made in England, has awesome support, uses easily fixable amps (not type D etc) and uses high quality drivers.
I will be buying an XXLS 400 FF or two when I'm settled, to replace the 2 Rel Quakes currently residing. They've shown me that a sub is not to be sniffed at!

 

[alanbeeb]

I’m swaying towards the SVS 3000 Micro due to its parametric eq etc. but it’s quite spendy…

Does the SVS have speaker level inputs? I don't think it does... And that would rule it out for me for music.

 

[Amber Audio]

Does the SVS have speaker level inputs? I don't think it does... And that would rule it out for me for music.

Line Level only. Also you need to measure the room cos there isn’t any Auto Calibration, the App is dead handy though. I have a 1000 Pro on temp duty at present and it’s on a par with REL and BK, there are a lot of really decent options for Subs these days.

 

[JimmyB]

Line Level only. Also you need to measure the room cos there isn’t any Auto Calibration, the App is dead handy though. I have a 1000 Pro on temp duty at present and it’s on a par with REL and BK, there are a lot of really decent options for Subs these days.

So does the app show the frequency response and allow you to adjust the sub to match?

Bit of a pain not having high level inputs as that's a far easier way to integrate but I'm sure they've overcome this with the software.

 

[Amber Audio]