Audio Sound Quality and Dacs resolution and cd quality
Andrew Podmore
Pod
yes, I’m sure many do, and logically you would expect more modern kit to sound better, and in no way was I suggesting that from a sample of one currently available Chinese DAC and one 90s DAC that I could draw any blanket conclusions, that would not make sense at all, and bear in mind that this was based on the same 16/44 cd, ( well a few different cds ) and did not include any hi res streaming. its worth noting that the current DAC is about 400 in todays money, and that the linn numerik was over 1200 in the 90s, So would be more expensive in todays money. It’s probably fair to compare it with a DAC priced around 1500 quid today. But there you go. Which DAC are you currently using ?
Andrew Podmore
Pod
Not dissimilar for a setting of say 60 on the linn kairn pre amp.
tuga
Legal Alien
I'm currently using HQPlayer software to upconvert Redbook (ripped CDs) to DSD 256, and feed that to a RME ADI-2 FS DAC.
Robert
Tapehead
I'm equally happy with CD or streaming and don't really care where the bits come from.
While I remember being pretty unimpressed with CD playback in the 80s, I was pretty happy with it in the 90s but that's likely because the quality of discs (or more accurately the transfer and mastering quality) got better. Is the sound from today's hi-res wonder dacs really better and more enjoyable than a good disc on a 90s CD player? - no probably not.
The recent review of the Sugden DAC-4 on the Hi-Fi Riff channel was interesting. They loved it, despite it using a relatively ancient 16 bit dac chip from 1992-ish.
I need to check one out since I'm currently in love with the A21 Sig amp and they look like perfect partners.
While I remember being pretty unimpressed with CD playback in the 80s, I was pretty happy with it in the 90s but that's likely because the quality of discs (or more accurately the transfer and mastering quality) got better. Is the sound from today's hi-res wonder dacs really better and more enjoyable than a good disc on a 90s CD player? - no probably not.
The recent review of the Sugden DAC-4 on the Hi-Fi Riff channel was interesting. They loved it, despite it using a relatively ancient 16 bit dac chip from 1992-ish.
I need to check one out since I'm currently in love with the A21 Sig amp and they look like perfect partners.
Of late, I am not convinced that DAC technology has improved all that much since the 1990s. I recently tried an old Sony pro player from the mid 1990s for fun and was shocked at its performance. It's certainly not the 'best' but very enjoyable overall. There are some shortcomings but I could easily live with it. The difference in performance in comparison with a more modern unit costing 10X its price (used vs used) was minor.
Colin L
High-tech low-life
Yes, it’s markedly better.
However, I suspect when you speak of wonder dacs you mean the flavour of the month ASR-favoured variants which measure well but sound crap, in which case maybe so.
Some years ago, after selling my Naim CDS2, I went through four very cheap (like £5 each) 90's players. They didn't sound exactly the same, but non sounded bad. Neither had a remote and two died on me, so in the end I bought a new Marantz CD6006. It's used digital out, so DAC SQ is irrelevant.
Salamander
pfm Member
Technology has improved but sound quality less so. I'm lucky enough to be able to listen to a dCS dac, but I'm sure the Sony you tried would still be enjoyable to these ears.
My current belief is that the implementation is more important than the silicon chip. By that I mean how the chip is used, PSUs, analogue output stage etc.
That’s how I’ve ended up with a 15 year old Meridian AV processor as my preferred streamer/DAC/pre-amp.
Things that I believe have helped include:
- room correction as the biggie
Then at a finer level:
- balanced output
- replacement of the switch mode PSU with a linear unit
- avoidance of the use of a digital interconnect (SPDIF/USB), by the use of a plug in card for the unit
The last sound comparison was against a far from cheaper Linn Akurate DS streamer and pre-amp. My processor has its PSU updated after that.
I have to say that I’m curious about the latest “hype” DACs, but have no expectations.
That’s how I’ve ended up with a 15 year old Meridian AV processor as my preferred streamer/DAC/pre-amp.
Things that I believe have helped include:
- room correction as the biggie
Then at a finer level:
- balanced output
- replacement of the switch mode PSU with a linear unit
- avoidance of the use of a digital interconnect (SPDIF/USB), by the use of a plug in card for the unit
The last sound comparison was against a far from cheaper Linn Akurate DS streamer and pre-amp. My processor has its PSU updated after that.
I have to say that I’m curious about the latest “hype” DACs, but have no expectations.
John Phillips
pfm Member
Yes. It's easy to stop a DAC chip from reaching its potential with poor surrounding implementation.
However the DAC chip manufacturer's evaluation board will, for sure, have been made to show off that potential and not degrade it. It will embody a lot of high quality R&D from a well-resourced company. It it will not need expensive components or special external power supplies becuase the DAC chip manufacturer's reputation would suffer if they allowed that to happen.
Also, learning from the evaluation board will mean that the DAC box maker will not need to spend large amounts on additional R&D to be recouped in high product price. Yet, unaccountably and illogically I sometimes see DAC box makers criticized for taking advantage of the DAC chip manufacturer's R&D. I would love those thinking that way to provide justification for the need to do something more that's somehow special, over and above maketing the product.
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Alex S
carbon based lifeform
FWIW of 3 ESS based dacs I have, the chips would cost £54 (x1) Topping, £22 (x2) Technics, and £9 (x2) Eversolo, if I bought 100. Obviously manufacturers buy far more but that was the most I found listed.
I do believe implementation is almost everything but my sample of three makes me wonder if the Pro chips give you more to work with. Or do manufacturers that purchase the more expensive chips take more trouble implementing them?
I do believe implementation is almost everything but my sample of three makes me wonder if the Pro chips give you more to work with. Or do manufacturers that purchase the more expensive chips take more trouble implementing them?
13th Duke of Wymbourne
pfm Member
Don't get hung-up on chip prices, the cost of manufacturing mostly depends on the size of the silicon die. The selling price depends upon competition and what the market will bear. If ESS make a range of products then there might be an added feature to justify a higher selling price but the increment to the cost of manufacture is, probably, small.
As to implementation vs. DAC chip, I am sure implementation is important but I also think it is a good story put about by DAC product manufacturers who can't design their own DAC, just implement someone else's DAC chip. And some companies implement pretty well in low priced products so if you can't compete on product price you need a story to justify a higher one.
As to implementation vs. DAC chip, I am sure implementation is important but I also think it is a good story put about by DAC product manufacturers who can't design their own DAC, just implement someone else's DAC chip. And some companies implement pretty well in low priced products so if you can't compete on product price you need a story to justify a higher one.
denni55
pfm Member
Sold my Ikemi over 15 years ago to try this streaming malarkey, lovely cd spinner it was too.
present day streaming is via Linn Klimax DS updated to latest spec.
either listening to my own library via Nas or Qobuz the end result is very satisfying to me.
my LP12 is available for spinning the black stuff.....
Andrew Podmore
Pod
I used to be a meridian dealer in the 90s, running a hifi shop in the days before internet sales! What is the meridian product and does it allow for room correction? Andrew
I use a Meridian 861v4 with an upgraded Linear PSU, an ID40 card for streaming and OA13 cards for balanced outputs. I certainly do use the room correction that it has, though I've manually implemented it.