No, you are talking about noise reduction, LCR, and the like. What's changing? If you said it was just subjective, it's just subjective and that's that. However you didn't, you started talking about screening, noise reduction, LCR etc. So which is it?
Aftermarket Power Cord Recommendation for Naim\Pardo
- Thread starter twochannelguy
- Start date
I don’t get it, so you’re questioning that copper screen can interact with em field? Or that a cable has its impedance?
Because it's complete and utter bollocks and some less scientific people might be sucked in by said bollocks and spend hundreds of pounds on a 2m length of cable that cannot make any difference whatsoever. In my opinion (and that of science).
I don’t really care how they work but power cables have definitely made a difference on every system I’ve had over the past 25 years. It’s quite component specific and sometimes the effect is to change the sound signature in a way I didn’t like.
what surprised me this week was how much difference the Redline cable makes on the Vertere challenger turntable power supply (for my DG1). Swapped it out for a Naim power line lite and a good half of the impact of the PS (clarity, grip and extra bass definition) was lost…..
forget the ‘theory’ power cables matter. If that bothers you ask a doctor how antidepressants work (clue - we have no idea but they do).
what surprised me this week was how much difference the Redline cable makes on the Vertere challenger turntable power supply (for my DG1). Swapped it out for a Naim power line lite and a good half of the impact of the PS (clarity, grip and extra bass definition) was lost…..
forget the ‘theory’ power cables matter. If that bothers you ask a doctor how antidepressants work (clue - we have no idea but they do).
omg, again. Have the ‘scientists’ forgot that Lagrange equations for the mechanical and electromagnetic systems are absolutely the same? Those are full and natural scientific analogues. To question if the cable material can impact the sound is the same as to question if the driver cone material can do so. To tell that a cable inductance doesn’t have an impact is the same as telling swiss watchmaker that a mass of that tiny detail cannot impact the precision of the watch..
Mike1965
pfm Member
^^ This
Why is it so important to understand the physics if the sound is to your liking? I just don't get it. If you don't like the sound can the physics tell you why? If it's for hifi use your own ears, if it's for a projector or tv use your eyes, if it makes no difference keep your money for something else.
Edited
I’m not disagreeing with you
I'm not questioning it at all. EM fields ane impedance is known, nature science that is well understood. If it has an effect on noise reduction when used as a mains cable, who's shown it? It's easy enough.
Mike1965
pfm Member
Sorry Brendan, I didn't word that very well!
I should really finish writing before I post!Yes there is 'science' around cables of course there is, but how can replacing the last 1m of cable compared to the bloody miles of it you can't replace that is in the circuit before that 1m make a significant difference? As long as the cable is of the correct specification and the connections from/to it are good it really can't.
Anyway I'm out as, co-incidentally, I'm rewiring my renovation today... using standard FT&E like all houses have in the walls before that gold plated 1m of mains cable that makes all the difference
Exactly by just plugging in the cable and listen, what simpler physical experiment is there? Or you mean a publication in Nature?
Do you understand that EM energy travels at the speed of light? It doesn‘t matter at all how many miles of cable are before… The last meter closes the circuit of your particular system and exactly the one that interacts with a power supply of the device.
That's a simple enough experiment, however your "measurements" there are massively unreliable. I have "seen" things that weren't there simply because my mind fills in the gaps, such as the blind spot. We all know that there is a blind spot in each of our eyes. That's an inescapable science fact. But why can't we see it? Because the mind fills in the gaps and has a guess at what's there. Same as the fact that we see double, but our brains correct it. If you're going to observe someting you have to be able to demonstrate that your observations are reliable. Mine aren't I know. You think that yours are? Hmm. If you like.
If you want, or any other repeatable, reproducible experiment.
My point is that if you want to say "I have had a listen and I think it sounds better with X or Y, that's an end of it" then that's OK. That's a faith based argument. It's like saying that you are a Christian and you see evidence of God's work everywhere you go. If that's your belief, fine. I don't believe in God, I don't believe that mains cables make the audible differences you describe, I think God and your audible differences such as noise reduction mains cables work well on sources but not amplifiers are imaginary.
However you haven't said this, you are talking about shielding reducing noise (OK, maybe, so demonstrate it) and LCR differences (again, show me. It's easy, known science.) Electronic engineers know how transistor amps work, this is known for 60 years, it's mature technology to the point where 50 year old circuits (the Hitachi MOSFET, the RCA. etc) are still in use, with modifications, and yet we are to believe that there is some unknown science happening in the 2M of cable between the wall and the socket in the back. What's that then? Why doesn't it happen elsewhere? Why is it only happening in consumer electronics and medical or scientific instruments don't show it? Aren't they precise enough?
Indeed.
That shows that you don’t understand my point. Medical instruments don’t show it because… they apparently do not sound, a bit unexpected, no?
This is the same logic as for the speaker manufacturers. Some of them (quite a few in fact) say that paper driver cones sound better than carbon, polypropylene or whatever. Why do you not asking them an evidence and measurements? After all, frequency response of the drivers can be the same.. It’s similar for the cables - to some ears silver sounds better than copper. Or absence of the screen can sound better with Naim for example..
Sure, all the sound reproduction is ‘imaginary’ in a way with the help of the brain. So what is the problem? Ok, brains are indistinguishable from the human beings… So you propose to listen to the worse hi-fi because of that?
What? Most people have primary school knowledge of physics, they make analogues for electricity like a water flowing from the power plant to their house which is crazy for sure..
It’s not faith…. Listening to music is an emotional and psycho-acoustic phenomenon. It’s not merely a physical one.
yes using ‘listening’ is an imprecise measurement and prone to bias, but it’s all we have.
The alternative is to ignore what you hear and say ‘it can’t happen’ - surely defeating the object of having a home system in the first place.We all hear differently and respond to different aspects of the music. Threads like this encourage people to experiment in finding a sound they may prefer. No point in shutting the argument down.
yes using ‘listening’ is an imprecise measurement and prone to bias, but it’s all we have.
The alternative is to ignore what you hear and say ‘it can’t happen’ - surely defeating the object of having a home system in the first place.We all hear differently and respond to different aspects of the music. Threads like this encourage people to experiment in finding a sound they may prefer. No point in shutting the argument down.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
As I believe that you have radial circuitry over there, I wonder if your wall socket plugs (as mentioned above) have fuses in and whether all power circuits/plugs are earthed. I would doubt the fuse bit but am interested nonetheless, as it may differ from the E.U.
I've never really been interested in mains cables; I simply bought expensive Russ Andrews' 8 core ones yonks ago (but prob. wouldn't now) in various lengths to suit each piece of kit/distance from mains. I do believe mains leads can make a difference to sensitive kit by dint of core capacity, construction, screening and IEC plug quality, though I've never experimented. (too much faff). Cleanliness of contacts and lack of oxidisation are, i.m.o., worthwhile considerations to reduce impedance.