Seanm
pfm Member
They’re a very engaging pair.
Miranda Sawyer?
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matthewr
spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld
Fond memories of the show but mostly for Tom Paulin as one cannot have enough Trotskyist Irish poets being paid from the license fee. Was part of my 90s "I will meet cool girls by knowing about the arts" persona which of course was far less successful than the traditional drinking beer and going to Nurses Night at The Conti (shoutout to the South Manchester eternal student lifestyle).
Alison Pearson was in her "I just want to be an amusing tv critic in the style of Mark Lawson" phase and wouldn't go mad for a few years yet. Somewhat oddly, Michael Gove also turned up on some episodes.
The Captain
~~~~~~~~~~
Tony, isn't it time to just create a new 'General Moaning' section, between Classifieds & Reference-?
Capt
Miranda Sawyer wasn't even a teenager when Joy Division emerged...
...but even so she seems to have lots of personal experiences of the band for a 12 year old from a public school.
The idea that she should have been qualified to curate the first disc of the awful New Order Retro CD box set also annoys me...
Gretton wanted a proper box called "Recycle" which had all the original A and B sides...
...nevermind - children like Miranda Sawyer obviously know best!
...but even so she seems to have lots of personal experiences of the band for a 12 year old from a public school.
The idea that she should have been qualified to curate the first disc of the awful New Order Retro CD box set also annoys me...
Gretton wanted a proper box called "Recycle" which had all the original A and B sides...
...nevermind - children like Miranda Sawyer obviously know best!
paulfromcamden
Baffled
Lets hope he didn't pick up any showbiz 'habits'.
I’m not an expert on Joy Division, far from it, but wasn’t their ‘fame’ largely posthumous?
I think I’m a similar age to Miranda Sawyer & can remember people at 6th form who were really in to them, some younger than me.
Can you only be an ‘expert’ if you alive when said subject was in their pomp?
I can think of a few examples which would contradict this viewpoint.
I think I’m a similar age to Miranda Sawyer & can remember people at 6th form who were really in to them, some younger than me.
Can you only be an ‘expert’ if you alive when said subject was in their pomp?
I can think of a few examples which would contradict this viewpoint.
To be fair I am exactly the same age as Miranda (born 1967) and actually bought "Unknown Pleasures" on release...
...but still wouldn't feel qualified to judge them (live especially). New Order is perhaps different as a I saw them live circa 1986.
Tony L
Administrator
I don’t think that is a good argument. It is the equivalent of saying I have no right to discuss Krautrock, prog, punk, jazz etc. I just wasn’t there. How many talking heads on a Beatles documentary were there? Most who turn up on such things are the likes of Oasis and others of generations later. It is just the nature of this sort of programming.
I am not saying they that youngsters shouldn't be able to like old stuff...
...but just listening to Gen Z American podcasts with millennial contributors is painful.
Mispronounced names abound and misunderstandings are normal - the mistakes are glaring.
Miranda Sawyer despite being British - is not completely innocent in this matter!
Mmm
How do classical critics cope then? What about Jazz, most of the key protagonists are long gone. Countless books on the Beatles etc.
Bit of a daft argument, sorry.
Yes but it depends how qualified she sounds.
I have followed Joy Division from the age of 12 (like Miranda)...
...but most of her observartions seem cretonous to me.
In what way are you more qualified?
She’s written about music for decades & is pretty good journalist & presenter.
There does seem to be a lot of urban mythology which has built up around Joy Division. I must be honest, they bore me to tears.
I am not qualified but I am a fan of over 40 years +...
...just my IMHO that Sawyer doesn't know what she is talking about.
My actual opinion is that New Order have stolen a living since "Technique" in 1989...
...Miranda Sawyer won't go along with that view in a million years!
...just my IMHO that Sawyer doesn't know what she is talking about.
My actual opinion is that New Order have stolen a living since "Technique" in 1989...
...Miranda Sawyer won't go along with that view in a million years!
Just to chime in I thought the PSB documentary was excellent overall. Neil and Chris are always worth listening to as they are clearly intelligent and still grounded, they also discuss a lot of topics most bands wouldn't even think about. I'm a huge fan of their music which I know many dismiss as lightweight synthpop nonsense, but lyrically they are very clever and they are still here making new music 40 years after they started... not many bands can say that. As for Miranda she seems to be a competent journalist with a genuine love of music and if she is prone to a bit of exaggeration every now and then over her own personal experiences so what? Her contributions to the documentary, while not crucial to it, did add some useful reaction commentary to the duo's career.
@Woodface I am 59 and the second band I ever saw live was Joy Division, I sneaked off at the tender age of 14 to watch them in London. While they certainly became elevated to the almost mythical status they are held in today in many people's minds after Curtis's death and New Order's success, there was a huge buzz around them when I saw them and anyone who was anyone was clamouring for a piece of them. While they are one of my favourite bands (I only went to uni in Manchester because of Factory Records, much to my parents' dismay) I wonder how their career might have progressed had Ian not have died... Peter Hook talks about how they felt they need to do something different to emerge from the shadow of Ian and put his passing behind them when they became New Order and they got into the underground electronic music scene and the rest is history... maybe there would have been no Blue Monday and the world of electronic dance music would have been very different.
@Woodface I am 59 and the second band I ever saw live was Joy Division, I sneaked off at the tender age of 14 to watch them in London. While they certainly became elevated to the almost mythical status they are held in today in many people's minds after Curtis's death and New Order's success, there was a huge buzz around them when I saw them and anyone who was anyone was clamouring for a piece of them. While they are one of my favourite bands (I only went to uni in Manchester because of Factory Records, much to my parents' dismay) I wonder how their career might have progressed had Ian not have died... Peter Hook talks about how they felt they need to do something different to emerge from the shadow of Ian and put his passing behind them when they became New Order and they got into the underground electronic music scene and the rest is history... maybe there would have been no Blue Monday and the world of electronic dance music would have been very different.
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Brown Bottle
UTB
TBF to Elbow, like Pulp, put in the hard yards before finding fame. Give me Jarvis on the radio everytime though. I'm ambivalent towards Elbow but I have to say when I saw them live Garvey had the crowd at the O2 in the palm of his hand and I thought they were fantastic live. I just never reach for them at home.
Miranda Sawyer has done shows on 6 Music speaking to people in thr film industry about music, I thought they were very good and she got a good insight into her guests.
Cheers BB
laughingboy
pfm Member
It's not at all inexplicable that Sawyer appeared on the Pet Shop Boys documentary. She worked at Smash Hits a few years after Tennant (so was able to comment on SH's style of music journalism) and also has a long history of interviewing and working with the duo.
1988 Single Of The Fortnight: Left To My Own Devices: (Wikipedia)
1990 review of Being Boring: (wikipedia)
October 2003 interview: https://www.theguardian.com/music/2003/oct/19/popandrock.shopping
March 2016 documentary: https://www.petshopboys.co.uk/news/2016-03-31/documentary-3
May 2020 documentary: https://www.petshopboys.co.uk/news/2020-05-03/radio-2-documentary
As for her other contributions to the 'Imagine' documentary, I liked her observation that while Tennant and Lowe aren't typical 'pop stars', if you could successfully make a cartoon of the characters in a band, they're pop stars. Which shed light on a lot of their visuals, and Tennant's later quotation of Adam Ant: 'ridicule is nothing to be scared of'. Not sure what your beef is.
Tony L
Administrator
Just watching the PSB Imagine now. No way would I have singled Sawyer out, there are a lot of peripheral talking heads. Surprising given how good the Tennent and Lowe are at being interviewed. The Imagine production team didn’t really need to interview anyone else, but you certainly can’t blame those who took part for accepting the offer.
It’s amazing how quickly things moved on after his death. I’m nearly 53 so they passed me by completely.