Nazi

[Todd A]

I think separating the art from the artist is tricky and everyone will have different ideas about what does and doesn't impact their appreciation of the work.

I think separating art from artist is easy. I have nothing to do with any artist, nor do I, nor can I influence what they did or what they might do. I can only assess their art. I listen to compositions by Gesualdo and Wagner and Saint-Saens, all vile dead people. Some German artists and some French artists (eg, Cortot, a craven collaborator) and some other European musicians from the 30s and 40s were also vile. I am not aware of any of them holding senior political policy making roles at the time, though perhaps a few did. Some more recent artists like James Levine or William Preucil or Charles Dutoit have engaged in vile behavior, yet I listen to their work still. I even watch Roman Polanski movies. I suspect multiple artists out there have engaged in shady behavior. None of it matters.

 

[alanbeeb]

Spill the beans on Camille.... What did the vile Saint-Saens do? I haven't heard.

 

[Todd A]

Saint-Saens once stated "I am not a homosexual but a pederast." He also is reported to have engaged in what would now be called sex tourism during his trips to North Africa.

 

[The Captain]

I think separating art from artist is easy. I have nothing to do with any artist, nor do I, nor can I influence what they did or what they might do. I can only assess their art. I listen to compositions by Gesualdo and Wagner and Saint-Saens, all vile dead people. Some German artists and some French artists (eg, Cortot, a craven collaborator) and some other European musicians from the 30s and 40s were also vile. I am not aware of any of them holding senior political policy making roles at the time, though perhaps a few did. Some more recent artists like James Levine or William Preucil or Charles Dutoit have engaged in vile behavior, yet I listen to their work still. I even watch Roman Polanski movies. I suspect multiple artists out there have engaged in shady behavior. None of it matters.

Hmm.. well all I can reply with here, is the gulf between what the Nazis did & your use of such a mild word as 'shady' in juxtaposition with the magnitude of their atrociousness, sits rather uneasily with me.

Capt

 

[Todd A]

Hmm.. well all I can reply with here, is the gulf between what the Nazis did & your use of such a mild word as 'shady' in juxtaposition with the magnitude of their atrociousness, sits rather uneasily with me.

Capt

If you can provide any evidence that any artists of the 30s and 40s in Germany or elsewhere in Europe were in senior political positions of the Nazi regime and either made decisions that contributed to the Holocaust and war strategy or directly took part in specific crimes, that would open up a substantive debate. Otherwise, all that's on offer is basically virtue signaling.

 

[The Captain]

If you can provide any evidence that any artists of the 30s and 40s in Germany or elsewhere in Europe were in senior political positions of the Nazi regime and either made decisions that contributed to the Holocaust and war strategy or directly took part in specific crimes, that would open up a substantive debate. Otherwise, all that's on offer is basically virtue signaling.

Don't be a silly fish.

Capt

 

[Todd A]

Don't be a silly fish.

Capt

Virtue signaling it is.

 

[lawrence001]

Stick them in our local auction. They seem to always have some weird nazi stuff. Makes you wonder where it all comes from. Did Hitler really escape and see out his years in Sidcup? Makes you think...

Lots of British troops picked up what has become nazi memorabilia as trophies or prizes at the end of the war and during the occupation of Germany.

Hitler can't have come to Sidcup as he was smuggled out of Berlin in a Fieseler Storch by Hanna Reitsch and taken to South America on an experimental U boat (with a lot of nazi gold) where an ex pat German plastic surgeon operated on him, and he continued to live until his death in 1965. One of his body doubles was murdered and the body left only partly burnt for the Russians to find in Berlin. I thought everybody knew that.

 

[Dave Cattlin]

Sorry. Back in the day, recording companies did not all use the same standard for their recording specs. Many, after some years (1954 onwards) agreed on one standard, but DG stoutly stuck to their own ‘curve’.
Pre amps and phonostages are equalised to that 1954 standard curve, so they exactly balance the curve (a slight boost or diminishing of tonal extremes) that was applied at recording time. Dg’s curve can be catered to by a pre amp with RIAA adjustments. Without those adjustments many find the sound ‘odd’. I’ve always appreciated the sound quality, but they sound a bit cold and hard to me.

This is not insignificant

I recently heard a CH Precision phono stage which could apply the appropriate curve to different recordings

Using this simply transformed the music and I reckon you would always prefer the pressing which had the correct eq applied

Dave

 

[paulfromcamden]

This is not insignificant

I recently heard a CH Precision phono stage which could apply the appropriate curve to different recordings

Using this simply transformed the music and I reckon you would always prefer the pressing which had the correct eq applied

Dave

Though $50k with PSU isn't cheap. And the EQ board is an optional extra.

The Park Audio phono stages with DSP offer lots of EQ options for $500. Some of the folks at Lenco Heaven have been very pleased with them.

 

[Barrymagrec]

Though $50k with PSU isn't cheap. And the EQ board is an optional extra.

The Park Audio phono stages with DSP offer lots of EQ options for $500. Some of the folks at Lenco Heaven have been very pleased with them.

Doesn`t the use of DSP with a phono stage defeat the object somewhat?

 

[paulfromcamden]

Doesn`t the use of DSP with a phono stage defeat the object somewhat?

I guess it depends what the object is. I understand people wanting to keep everything analog. On the other hand it seems like a pragmatic approach for people who just want to play older discs (including 78s) with the correct pre-RIAA EQ.

There's a list of 20+ different EQ curves listed here for people digitising discs using Audacity. I'm not sure there are many hardware-only devices that offer that amount of configuration.

 

[Tumeni Notes]

I inherited this 1967 example from my Dad's collection. Set the cover upright, and the hands follow you around the room.

Peter Tschaikowsky*, Herbert von Karajan, Berliner Philharmoniker – Peter Tschaikowsky - Herbert von Karajan​

More images

Label:	Deutsche Grammophon – 104 811
Format:	Vinyl, LP, Compilation, Stereo
Country:	Germany
Released:	1967
Genre:	Classical

 

[The Captain]

I inherited this 1967 example from my Dad's collection. Set the cover upright, and the hands follow you around the room.

Peter Tschaikowsky*, Herbert von Karajan, Berliner Philharmoniker – Peter Tschaikowsky - Herbert von Karajan​

More images

Label:	Deutsche Grammophon – 104 811
Format:	Vinyl, LP, Compilation, Stereo
Country:	Germany
Released:	1967
Genre:	Classical

Now that's creepy.

But according to the replies, nope- still not an iota of discomfort listening to this with this Lp cover on their lap.

Hmm..

Capt

 

[alanbeeb]

I inherited this 1967 example from my Dad's collection. Set the cover upright, and the hands follow you around the room.

Peter Tschaikowsky*, Herbert von Karajan, Berliner Philharmoniker – Peter Tschaikowsky - Herbert von Karajan​

More images

Label:	Deutsche Grammophon – 104 811
Format:	Vinyl, LP, Compilation, Stereo
Country:	Germany
Released:	1967
Genre:	Classical

Nazi salutes with both arms at the same time!

 

[Dave Cattlin]

Though $50k with PSU isn't cheap. And the EQ board is an optional extra.

The Park Audio phono stages with DSP offer lots of EQ options for $500. Some of the folks at Lenco Heaven have been very pleased with them.

And it's current sensing too which I believe contributed the georgeousness of the P1/X1

Dave

 

[TheDecameron]

I often seem to flip my nice classical deutsche grammophon Lp 2nd hand shop find over, to see Herbert the nazi on the back.. looking like an albeit older, chiselled perfect german, standing there in black all in charge already. I kinda get the chills a bit. Does it affect my listening experience? Hmm.. I wonder. I definitely can't do Karajan + Wagner on deutsche. Can you-?

I think it's the deutsche bit which doesn't help. But their recordings are usually a dead-cert for recording & quality & I have amassed 300 or so yellow-top deutsch grammophon classical Lp's now. Mendelssohn's 1&2 at the moment, fabulous.

Capt

Most great DG recordings up to the 70s will have had umpteen ex-party members on them. I found Elizabeth Schwarzkopf absolutely charming if a little intimidating when I met her in 1985 at Covent Garden. I had mistakenly assumed her great collaborator (ahem) on Mozart, Karl Böhm, was a party member.

 

[Barrymagrec]

Most great DG recordings up to the 70s will have had umpteen ex-party members on them. I found Elizabeth Schwarzkopf absolutely charming if a little intimidating when I met her in 1985 at Covent Garden. I had mistakenly assumed her great collaborator (ahem) on Mozart, Karl Böhm, was a party member.

I also thought Karl Bohm was a party member.

Elizabeth Schwarzkopf married Walter Legge*, a Jew, go figure.

In the main I just listen to the music.


*Another very dodgy character.

 

[mandryka]

I found Elizabeth Schwarzkopf absolutely charming if a little intimidating when I met her in 1985 at Covent Garden. I had mistakenly assumed her great collaborator (ahem) on Mozart, Karl Böhm, was a party member.

Well I guess some of the sweetest people are Nazis just as some of the sweetest people work in abattoirs.