The Rise of the Far Right

[laughingboy]

Peter Oborne via DoubleDown News (wiki):

"...this far-right movement is supported by many of the leading British newspapers and is gaining increasing power not just in the Conservative party but, as events of this week suggest, perhaps has its admirers in Kier Starmer's Labour as well. Keir Starmer does need to be careful here - he may be in danger of buying into the noxious bigotry of the far-right, which interprets everything that Muslims do as a threat to the, sort of, sanctity of what Britain stands for."

 

[kensalriser]

I think this is the *most* likely scenario: it's more or less nailed on. With or without Farage, I think the Conservative Party will very likely reposition itself as the heirs to UKIP after the coming massacre, ready to capitalise on anger and disgust at the failure of Starmer's government.

The Conservative Party is already the heir to UKIP, it was a reverse takeover. I don't think it will be electable with Farage as leader. And I don't think a Starmer government will cause the same level of anger and disgust as the last five years of Tory government.

 

[palindrome]

The Conservative Party is already the heir to UKIP, it was a reverse takeover. I don't think it will be electable with Farage as leader. And I don't think a Starmer government will cause the same level of anger and disgust as the last five years of Tory government.

It's already managed to achieve that in opposition, as far as I'm concerned.

Will the Skewer'n'Sunk Show at pmq's, revelling in and trading blows with their weaponised anti-Semitism schtick, impact voter intentions? Because all I'm seeing and hearing is a squalid, second-rate Punch and Judy tribute act splashing in the sewer that is British politics.

John

 

[PaulMB]

I'm not an expert on UK politics, but I have a feeling that a Starmer government would (will?) be much better than some of the rabid attacks on him on PFM would suggest. Certainly much better than what there is now.
Bearing in mind that the UK is overwhelmingly a moderate, middle class society.

 

[laughingboy]

I'm not an expert on UK politics, but I have a feeling that a Starmer government would (will?) be much better than some of the rabid attacks on him on PFM would suggest.

I'm sure a Starmer government would be better than the Tories. But let's not ignore the facts: Starmer is not popular at a time when 61% of the population think the country is headed in the 'wrong direction' (here). That last stat is the perfect breeding ground for the far-right.

 

[Seanm]

The Conservative Party is already the heir to UKIP, it was a reverse takeover. I don't think it will be electable with Farage as leader. And I don't think a Starmer government will cause the same level of anger and disgust as the last five years of Tory government.

Tory party is in transition, IMO: the top positions are still filled by Sensibles and placemen for the Treasury and City who are happy to use the NF stuff but like to keep it in its place. Braverman, Anderson et al are a different story and if they get full control of the party they will go all in. There is a pretty solid constituency for that kind of thing in the UK, let's say 20% of the electorate at least. Not a bad start and under the right circumstances with the right sales pitch it could be much bigger.

A Starmer government is set to make people very, very angry, very quickly. You know what you're getting with the Conservatives but people don't vote for a social democratic party so that they can deliver austerity. If things don't improve pretty pronto - and they won't, if Labour stick to their plans - nobody'd going to give them the benefit of the doubt. Nobody likes them, even now. They're completely dependent on the press. Will the press continue to run PR for them, when things turn sour? Or will they prefer to channel popular discontent and anger towards a reconstituted, openly far right Conservative Party? I know what I'd put my money on.

 

[Yank]

As an outsider, I don't know the answer, this is not a rhetorical question - what is the present Labour Party position on the NHS? Will they defund it as quickly as the Tories?

 

[ks.234]

As an outsider, I don't know the answer, this is not a rhetorical question - what is the present Labour Party position on the NHS? Will they defund it as quickly as the Tories?

They will defund it from public investment for sure. They will do that by a devise similar to PFI. That will enable them to claim more funding, but it is a short term model to get current spending off the balance sheet for a few years, by putting future repayments onto the NHS balance sheet in the future.

It is a similar tactic that enables the Tories to say they’re spending record amounts on education, when, as More or Less has exposed, the truth os that it is an accounting trick

More or Less - School spending, excess deaths and billions of animals at Heathrow - BBC Sounds

Is school funding at record levels? Did 6.5bn creatures come to the UK by plane last year?

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[ks.234]

Keir Starmer does need to be careful here - he may be in danger of buying into the noxious bigotry of the far-right, which interprets everything that Muslims do as a threat to the, sort of, sanctity of what Britain stands for."

The problem is that the Labour Party is quite literally careless.

They’ll say and do anything to gain power. They don’t give a f*ck about people

 

[Barrymagrec]

The problem is that the Labour Party is quite literally careless.

They’ll say and do anything to gain power. They don’t give a f*ck about people

Just like the tories really then.

 

[ks.234]

Just like the tories really then.

Yes. Exactly like the Tories in direction and ideas. Possibly worse.

 

[paulfromcamden]

I'm not an expert on UK politics, but I have a feeling that a Starmer government would (will?) be much better than some of the rabid attacks on him on PFM would suggest. Certainly much better than what there is now.

That's a pretty low bar though.

My cat would make a better fist of governing the UK than most of the jokers we currently have. And all she cares about is mealtimes and naps*.

Surely it's OK to want something more than "the current government is marginally less hateful and corrupt than the previous lot"?

* And in this she is infinitely wiser than most human people.

 

[ks.234]

I'm not an expert on UK politics, but I have a feeling that a Starmer government would (will?) be much better than some of the rabid attacks on him on PFM would suggest. Certainly much better than what there is now.
Bearing in mind that the UK is overwhelmingly a moderate, middle class society.

The evidence would suggest otherwise

 

[Tony L]

Bearing in mind that the UK is overwhelmingly a moderate, middle class society.

I’m interested as to what your experience of the UK is? Where have you visited? Your description doesn’t match the reality very closely, though it is very easy as a tourist to miss the wider picture.

Some data here:

The Scale of Economic Inequality in the UK | The Equality Trust

The UK has the 7th most unequal incomes of 30 countries in the developed world, but is about average in terms of wealth inequality. While the top fifth have nearly 50% of the country's income and 60% of the country's wealth, the bottom fifth have only 4% of the income and only 1% of the wealth.

equalitytrust.org.uk

 

[kensalriser]

I understand the cynicism, but people on the left opining that Labour is just the same as the Tories will be sweet music to Tory ears. It plays right into their hands. They benefit from people disengaging. I'm not falling for it. I'm under no illusions with Labour but that doesn't stop me fervently hoping for an end to this venal, nihilistic iteration of Tory rule. I'd far rather be opposing a Starmer led Labour government than whatever the Tories spew up next.

 

[Tony L]

Peter Oborne via DoubleDown News (wiki):

"...this far-right movement is supported by many of the leading British newspapers and is gaining increasing power not just in the Conservative party but, as events of this week suggest, perhaps has its admirers in Kier Starmer's Labour as well. Keir Starmer does need to be careful here - he may be in danger of buying into the noxious bigotry of the far-right, which interprets everything that Muslims do as a threat to the, sort of, sanctity of what Britain stands for."

Another superb piece of journalism from Peter Oborne/DDN. He calls this one exactly right as IMHO. A fascinating journalistic career spanning everything from the Telegraph, Spectator and Dacre right through to DDN and Middle East Eye, Byline Times etc today. One of very few journalists active in the UK today.

Peter Oborne - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

PS I agree with him 100% on Hoyle. He really needs to go. A nasty piece of work IMHO.

 

[Mick P]

I understand the cynicism, but people on the left opining that Labour is just the same as the Tories will be sweet music to Tory ears. It plays right into their hands. They benefit from people disengaging. I'm not falling for it. I'm under no illusions with Labour but that doesn't stop me fervently hoping for an end to this venal, nihilistic iteration of Tory rule. I'd far rather be opposing a Starmer led Labour government that whatever the Tories spew up next.

There is bugger all difference today between Labour and the Tories at a national level. They have virtually the same policies and it's only the rhetoric of a few fruitcakes on the fringes in both parties that's different.

The three main parties were shown in their true colours during the 2009 expenses scandal with Harriet Harman of the then Labour government ordering the redacting of names of MPs who were caught on the fiddle. Proportionately, the Libs had the highest rate of offenders. Labour will probably win the next election and the result will be a complete damp squid as nothing will change.

Parliament has always been bent since time immemorial and even if citizen smith took over, it would still remain bent. MPs are paid a crap salary, they tend not to last long and want to benefit themselves as much as they can for as long as they can. Being an MP is not a career, it is just a game of chance on how long they will survive, so it becomes the old hey diddle diddle, we are all on the fiddle and will do it for as long as we can.

There is a difference at local level as the Tories tend to be better at controlling the Town Halls but most people find the local stuff boring and unimportant and just forget about it.

 

[Tony L]

Disclaimer: Mick is a lifelong Tory activist with a Tory councillor son. It is in his direct personal interest to dilute party differences as his son has to sell Lee Anderson’s racist shit to keep his job.

PS The above appears to justify till-dipping too, which might be rather embarrassing given the family connection. I’d clear it with central office if I were you!

 

[Mick P]

Disclaimer: Mick is a lifelong Tory activist with a Tory councillor son. It is in his direct personal interest to dilute party differences as his son has to sell Lee Anderson’s racist shit to keep his job.

Dear Tony, if a local councillor of any political persuasion tried to defend Lee Anderson's racist shit, they would lose their job unless they represented one of the fruitcake ones..

 

[Nick_G]

Dear Tony, if a local councillor of any political persuasion tried to defend Lee Anderson's racist shit, they would lose their job unless they represented one of the fruitcake ones..

So all of them then...