Hip Hop at 50

[kjb]

According the the BBC and others, hip hop turns 50 this month

Born in New York's Bronx before dominating the globe, hip hop turns 50 (yahoo.com)

There's a case for saying its been the most influential or important form of the last 50 years, progressing and innovating as other forms have trod water or declined. In many ways its beats have helped other forms stay fresh. It's pretty ubiquitous and increasingly diverse - in film sound tracks, in contemporary jazz, in festival line ups, in adverts, in contemporary dance.

I know it's decidedly marmite here - some see it as awful, others as vital.

For me Three Feet High and Rising, The First Tribe Called Quest record and To Pimp Butterfly stand out as records and J Dilla's for beats and as a sound.

What are your thoughts on the high spots?

 

[Big Tabs]

I have been a fan since the 1980’s - Hip Hop (along with Punk) was part of the underground Skateboarding culture that kept rolling through the dark period until its resurgence.

Highspots? Dunno.

Stuff I play frequently -
Public Enemy
Schoolly D
BDP - KRS-One
Cut Chemist
Cypress Hill
DJ Shadow
Childish Gambino
DJ Yoda
DJ Food
Outkast
Coldcut
Beastie Boys
Eric B & Rakim
Roots Manuva
The Rza
Missy Elliott
Kid Koala
Kendrick L.


worth noting that I like Turntablism a lot (Cut Chemist etc.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turntablism

never had much time for Dr Dre, Eminem etc. sort of thing my kids liked.

This is a great album combining orchestrated Hip Hop with a bit of Turntablism
- a suck and see for the less P.E. inclined! fairly gentle, but busts some grooves…


Heritage Orchestra*, Jules Buckley, Ghost-Note – The Breaks


More images

Label: Decca – 358 6771
Format:
CD, Album, Stereo
Country: Europe
Released: 3 Sep 2021
Genre: Hip Hop, Jazz

 

[kensalriser]

1973 is seriously stretching it, somebody just wanted to get a bandwagon going - which is why it's trademarked 50th Anniversary of Hip Hop™.

Ridiculous! It's like claiming Cubism began when the first slightly abstract box appeared in an Old Master.

 

[paulfromcamden]

I'm completely out of touch but I really like a lot of stuff Def Jux put out - Company Flow, Cannibal Ox etc.

 

[Big Tabs]

1973 is seriously stretching it, somebody just wanted to get a bandwagon going - which is why it's trademarked 50th Anniversary of Hip Hop™.

Ridiculous! It's like claiming Cubism began when the first slightly abstract box appeared in an Old Master.

So when did it begin from your point of view?

 

[Darren L]

I have to admit I was surprised when it said 1973, I had incorrectly assumed perhaps very late 70's or early 80's.
It's not a genre I know much about, I have a few titles named above but I now gather that Hip-hop is now more of an umbrella term for a fairly wide range of differing sub-genres.
Everyday is a school day.

 

[paulfromcamden]

I have to admit I was surprised when it said 1973, I had incorrectly assumed perhaps very late 70's or early 80's.
It's not a genre I know much about, I have a few titles named above but I now gather that Hip-hop is now more of an umbrella term for a fairly wide range of differing sub-genres.
Everyday is a school day.

The date apparently comes from when Kool Herc started beat-matching James Brown breaks and rapping over them at parties. I guess the first hip-hop on record would be Sugarhill Gang in 1979?

 

[kjb]

but I now gather that Hip-hop is now more of an umbrella term for a fairly wide range of differing sub-genres.

Like rock or jazz you mean?

1973 is seriously stretching it, somebody just wanted to get a bandwagon going - which is why it's trademarked 50th Anniversary of Hip Hop™.

Ridiculous! It's like claiming Cubism began when the first slightly abstract box appeared in an Old Master.

I must admit I think of it as a later 70s thing but, like all things, the first records come from a context and culture that was already either developing or in place

There are precursors like The Last Poets or Gil Scott Heron but neither of them rapped / sung over already existing/sampled and repurposed music which is the key feature of early hip hop for me.

 

[Darren L]

Like rock or jazz you mean?

Yeah, I guess I thought it was a bit more of a specific term than 'rock' .

 

[paulfromcamden]

This video of a 14 year old Roxanne Shante is still one of the coolest things on the internet.

 

[Conan]

According the the BBC and others, hip hop turns 50 this month

Born in New York's Bronx before dominating the globe, hip hop turns 50 (yahoo.com)

There's a case for saying its been the most influential or important form of the last 50 years, progressing and innovating as other forms have trod water or declined. In many ways its beats have helped other forms stay fresh. It's pretty ubiquitous and increasingly diverse - in film sound tracks, in contemporary jazz, in festival line ups, in adverts, in contemporary dance.

I know it's decidedly marmite here - some see it as awful, others as vital.

For me Three Feet High and Rising, The First Tribe Called Quest record and To Pimp Butterfly stand out as records and J Dilla's for beats and as a sound.

What are your thoughts on the high spots?

I share your taste but would replace to pimp ab for good kid maad city

 

[kjb]

I share your taste but would replace to pimp ab for good kid maad city

It's a close call for me - Money Tree almost swings it.

I forgot Frank Ocean's Blonde in my list - one of my favourite records of any genre.

 

[Tony L]

I’m curious exactly what they are citing as the start in 1973. As others have said upthread what we associate with hip-hop (samples, drum machines, turntablism etc) didn’t arrive until later than that.

Gil Scott Heron is the precursor to me, e.g.

That’s from 1970. Rhyme, political content, rhythm, repetition. It’s all there bar the technology. Gil Scott Heron is one of the most important artists of the 20th century IMO. Impossible to overstate his significance.

This is where I noticed hip hop. Grandmaster Flash from 1981, so way, way later. All the technology, cheeky samples, scratching etc.

Then this, obviously. Try and find this 12” single, it is an absolute beast. An amazing sounding record! How something that is a drum machine, a couple of SL1200s and vocal can sound so good is baffling, but it does!

 

[Mogreg]

I’m curious exactly what they are citing as the start in 1973. As others have said upthread what we associate with hip-hop (samples, drum machines, turntablism etc) didn’t arrive until later than that.

Gil Scott Heron is the precursor to me, e.g.

That’s from 1970. Rhyme, political content, rhythm, repetition. It’s all there bar the technology. Gil Scott Heron is one of the most important artists of the 20th century IMO. Impossible to overstate his significance.

This is where I noticed hip hop. Grandmaster Flash from 1981, so way, way later. All the technology, cheeky samples, scratching etc.

Then this, obviously. Try and find this 12” single, it is an absolute beast. An amazing sounding record! How something that is a drum machine, a couple of SL1200s and vocal can sound so good is baffling, but it does!

To be honest, I don't know if anything since 'Wheels of steel' has completely & utterly blown me away to that extent. I was 14, had been devouring the past few years of new wave, electronic & disco music as you probably only ever do at that age, and heard it played on John Peel's show - it was a total 'WTF?' moment for me, I went out to the local record shop & ordered the 12". I'd previously bought Rapper's Delight, which I still love, but that to me was just another form of disco... this was like something beamed in from outer space.

 

[kjb]

To be honest, I don't know if anything since 'Wheels of steel' has completely & utterly blown me away to that extent. I was 14, had been devouring the past few years of new wave, electronic & disco music as you probably only ever do at that age, and heard it played on John Peel's show - it was a total 'WTF?' moment for me, I went out to the local record shop & ordered the 12". I'd previously bought Rapper's Delight, which I still love, but that to me was just another form of disco... this was like something beamed in from outer space.

I think it was always the work of the DJs, not the rappers, that hooked me in.

This podcast ( with Nate Chinen) reviewing a recent book about J Dilla might be of interest.

Digging into 'Dilla Time,' and the legacy of a rhythm pioneer | WBGO

They place Dilla in a lineage from Armstrong/ Baby Dodds to Parker/ Roach to Brown in terms of the impact of his innovations with rhythm. It sent me back for a much closer listen to a lot of hip hop and hip hop influenced R&B.

 

[paulfromcamden]

They place Dilla in a lineage from Armstrong/ Baby Dodds to Parker/ Roach to Brown in terms of the impact of his innovations with rhythm. It sent me back for a much closer listen to a lot of hip hop and hip hop influenced R&B.

It's an obvious observation but there's a huge crossover between hip hop and jazz. To me a lot of the interest comes from a rapper's flow - the timbre, rhythm and phrasing. It's not a million miles away from the way a solo works in jazz.

Thanks for the link - I'll give that a listen.

 

[kensalriser]

So when did it begin from your point of view?

Cultural phenomena evolve, they don't necessarily have start dates. It's a simple, neat narrative but one that has more to do with a flag-placing grab in pursuit of a marketed and monetised history - hence the trade mark.

What do I think? The evolution of hip hop happened somewhere between 1973 and 1979 when there were records by multiple artists that could be identified as hip hop, the latter the point at which it became a fully fledged art form.

 

[paulfromcamden]

Cultural phenomena evolve, they don't necessarily have start dates. It's a simple, neat narrative but one that has more to do with a flag-placing grab in pursuit of a marketed and monetised history - hence the trade mark.

Fair point. I think you also have to look at this as an amalgam of different aspects of the culture - not just the DJs and MC but the b-boys, graffiti artists and so on. The early years of hip-hop aren't about the records. Those came later.

 

[Big Tabs]

1973 is seriously stretching it,

The evolution of hip hop happened somewhere between 1973 and 1979

 

[Big Tabs]

The early years of hip-hop aren't about the records. Those came later.

agreed.