eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
I want some...
Brexit Nutters out in the open
- Thread starter slavedata
- Start date
I want some...
Rockmeister
pfm Member
wibble
so far then (copied from the BEEB website), the customs union
does mean we couldn't negotiate free trade deals with other countries, the EU does that.
It might also mean paying money to the EU and accepting ECJ judgements when they relate to trade and it is unlikely to cover farm produce or fish since the UK would not be in the Common Agricultural Policy or Common Fisheries Policy.
A customs union does however have one big advantage, it means the Ireland/Northern Ireland border would remain open and easy to cross.
glancaster
In the silicon vale
- A customs union (CU) covers movement of goods, not people.
- The UK/Ireland Common Travel Area (CTA), which would persist post-Brexit, applies only to British and Irish citizens, not to others. This has always been a small problem (Google: Operation Gull) but would become a bigger one should non-Irish EU citizens no longer have freedom of movement in the UK.
- By way of example, the only country that is currently in the EU CU but not the single market is Turkey. It does not have an open border with the EU by any stretch of the imagination.
I think a CU could be part of the solution to the NI border issue, but I'm not sure it is enough. If you add in the single market too, which includes freedom of movement of people, then it looks a lot clearer.
Kind regards
- Garry
HairyHaggis
<((((º>`•.¸¸.•´¯`•.¸.•´¯`•...¸><((((º>¸.
i noted that jc, in his speech this am, mentioned labours prioritising of the gfa and the irish border question, saying that they would do whatever it took to retain the current position. i wonder if that's a cunning way of saying that if it takes staying in the sm, then that's what they would do.
stephen bennett
Mr Enigma
Maybe some kind of 'union with Europe' could be set up?
(of course this is the compromise that would not be as good as being in the EU while not being in the EU and thus should satisfy all voters).
Stephen
Still
he said his naim was ralph
if you don't get what you want you better want what you get.
He's getting a blue passport, a Vera Lynne Greatest Hits album, an original Austin Allegro and a basket case economy. He'll be happy enough.
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
No, I mean I just wanted some of what Rockmeister was smoking before he wrote whatever it was that he wrote.
What will you be getting, Mr B?
Rockmeister
pfm Member
home grown, but £200 an ounce to you. PM me your address and bank details
Still
he said his naim was ralph
^ obvious scam is obvious! Genuine suppliers of the chronic denominate in bitcoins.
That's what I thought, but as you haven't you better want what you get.
That's what I thought, but as you haven't you better want what you get.
New Stones single ?
Still
he said his naim was ralph
Was eternumviti born in a cross fire hurricane (Dartford, Kent)?
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Bogdanor’s piece in the Guardian this morning suggests variations of ‘soft Brexit’ are chimeric fantasies and that we really only face two practical choices- a hyper Thatcherist, deregulated WTO place fully outside the EU or remaining fully in the EU with a referendum to decide.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/27/customs-union-brexit-european-union-eu-turk
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/27/customs-union-brexit-european-union-eu-turk
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
The Brexit nutters are now shifting to the other arse cheek. The Irish border is the perfect example of manufactured outrage at the EU and hence a useful distraction from the utter mess their Brexit is in. “Them foreigners are trying to control part of our sovereign territory” when in fact the Tory /DUP coalition of chaos are already downgrading the status of the GFA and the open border themselves. They are prepared to risk a return to the past in N.Ireland to get their way.
Although I don't believe it, I'm told there are some decent Tory MPs. Why they have allowed their party to be held hostage by a bunch of bowler hat wearing bigots who use the Old Testament as a manifesto is beyond me.
I also don't understand why they allow Mad Mrs May to allow Boris to effectively do as he pleases and say what he wants.
But most of all, I wonder why Sinn Fein has been so quiet. They're surely playing a canny political game?
stephen bennett
Mr Enigma
Seanm
pfm Member
The argument appears to be that, since Turkey has a bad deal, no deal is possible. He doesn’t seem to address Corbyn’s proposal, which is that we might accept the jurisdiction of (unspecified) “EU agencies” and have a voice in future trade deals that the EU negotiates with other parties, if they affect the UK. That no other EU neighbour has a deal like this doesn’t immediately invalidate the proposal, I’d have thought.
Now if he was arguing that there is no way certain actors involved in negotiations would allow it to happen, that would be different. Which actors? To what end? With what authority and resources? But that would require some actual analysis. ISTM that Guardian analysis in relation to Brexit begins and ends with the fantasies of the Brexiteers, there’s little attempt to deal with the larger forces at work in Europe.
Excellent article here on the trials of Varoufakis gives some sense of the complexity of those forces, and of the unlikelihood of the EU negotiating reasonably with a left wing government:
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2018/03/08/yanis-varoufakis-modern-greek-tragedy/
Corbyn’s team will have been watching all that unfold, they can’t be under any illusions. My take on Corbyn’s speech is that it represents an attempt to shift the terms of the debate around Brexit so that when negotiations fail the failure can be dealt with rationally, i.e. not in terms of xenophobia, post-imperial nostalgia, etc.