Maybe not but it gives a good indication of the success the UK's largest companies will deliver.
Carillion
- Thread starter Rodrat
- Start date
Maybe not but it gives a good indication of the success the UK's largest companies will deliver.
Lol. You are like the left wing version of the daily mail.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
I'm sure you're right about that being the argument, but Carillion's pension fund was underfunded by some £600m, according to media reports, which the public finances are now going to have to pick up anyway.
As Arkless says, the cost of funding that pension would have to be in the contractor's bid price anyway, so we still pay. In this case, twice.
Rich I genuinely am gob smacked having returned to working in the public sector how inefficient and badly led the sector is.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Into four pages here, but I wonder if anybody here, or maybe anyone who knows of someone, who has lost out directly because of Carillion's demise. I read of this event being a catalyst for further crashes. This was one big conglomerate with fingers in pies throughout the world and their are many companies in the outsourcing sector which must be going through an introspective phase at the mo'.
bernardhepworth
pfm Member
I don't know what it's like in the building sector, but in the world of welfare to work, the profit margin is 20%, which is a big attraction for lots of organisations. The DWP like lots of government departments operate what is called a "black box approach" to letting out contracts. The black box approach means that 4-6 organisations are selected to bid for every contract that the DWP let out. That is fantastic if you are one of the favoured ones, but it means that you get organisations who wouldn't expect running large contracts way outside of their expertise with usual results. Even when departments do it the other way around and have an "open box" approach it doesn't work either. A few years ago, a large franchisee from a well known fast food outlet got close to winning a contract to run a social work service. Their motivation was the the profit margin.......
MikeMA
pfm Member
I don't know of anyone personally, but you can bet there will be a huge knock-on effect.
Worth remembering this is not just about the public-sector. There are plenty of private-sector companies who have contracts with Carrillion. They will lose money. I believe Google is one of them (stop cheering at the back there!).
There will also be a whole host of smaller service and construction companies to whom Carillion has sub-contracted private-sector work. They will lose out. (There was a chap from a painting and decorating company being interviewed last night who said he was £200k down). Then there are the suppliers who won't get paid, and so on down the line.
Quite a good if brief summary of what happened here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42666275
GJO
pfm Member
About 10 years back when Carillion were the main contractor at the London Hospital I was working for a company who supplied all the medical grade water systems throughout the whole site for blood analysers dialysis units and labs,my job was to commission and validate all these systems.
Due to their late payment,our terms were 60 days and it had got to over 90 days,I went back and removed the logic PCB's on all these systems so they could not be used,they soon payed up and it cost them circa 5K for me to go back and re-validate the systems before they could be put back into use.
Due to their late payment,our terms were 60 days and it had got to over 90 days,I went back and removed the logic PCB's on all these systems so they could not be used,they soon payed up and it cost them circa 5K for me to go back and re-validate the systems before they could be put back into use.
Still
he said his naim was ralph
Unlikely as there is no such thing.
Have you, by any chance, returned to working in the public sector in a leadership role?
Maybe if they'd made management remuneration commensurate with performance the margin would have been higher?
There's a good case developing for a five year or so clawback period for executive salaries / bonuses / pension contributions, especially when dividends and borrowings have been so high.
richardg
Admonishtrator
Oh so we only need to compare to other countries' waste, not use common sense? Having worked in 6 countries in my life (UK, Thailand, Malaysia,Australia, France, Germany), I am happy to say that the UK is the least bureaucratic and easy place to get things done of all six. Rest on one's laurels if you like, but I see room for improvement.
Mullardman
Moderately extreme...
Examples?
richardg
Admonishtrator
Where do you work?
richardg
Admonishtrator
I gave you three.
Mullardman
Moderately extreme...
Examples? Evidence?
Mullardman
Moderately extreme...
No you didn't. You made totally unsupported allegations about three public sector entities.
Evidence to support your allegations?
Still
he said his naim was ralph
Mullardman
Moderately extreme...
Sadly, the evidence shows that under the Tories, the only thing to be nationalised will be the debts, no doubt including pension funding. The huge salaries paid to the few failed puppet masters who are at the top of the Carillion Jenga pile will not be recovered.
Let's be clear here.. this is not simply the failure of a company. It is the failure of years of Govt. policy driven by greed and a warped version of ideology.
Mull
richardg
Admonishtrator
How can I give evidence, I was an employee. It's all anecdotal, based on experience. Example, though. My job was a complete waste of space. The companies only wanted the grant, not the advice. We could have done it all by phone, but the DTI insisted on face to face for every client. Meaning I sometimes flew to Glasgow to talk about funding for maybe £1,000.