advertisement


Puzzling results with ATC SCM50ASLT loudspeakers vs. previous system

M

Matthew J

Well-Known Member
I recently purchased a used pair of ATC SCM50ASLT loudspeakers. They were made in 2019 and are in perfect condition.

My pre-ATC system is:

Cambridge Audio R50 loudspeakers with original drive units (as far as I can tell) but Falcon Acoustics crossover
Michel Alecto mk2 monoblocks upgraded to 250w/channel spec
Trichord Orca pre-amp with Never Connected PSU
Chord Qutest DAC
Primare NP5 network streamer hard wired via Ethernet to a NAS
Chord Signature Reference loudspeaker cable
Chord Signature Tuned Array RCA analogue interconnects
Chord optical interconnect
Topping D70 Sabre Pro DAC (on test)
SMSL SU-10 DAC (on test)

The room is 5.58m x 3.63m with hard floor and soft furnishings. No room treatments yet.

The sound from this system is great, with great drive and dynamics and some sound staging and instrument separation. It plays music really well. However, with busy tracks the sound collapses, sound staging and instrument separation could be way better and bad recordings do sound terrible

I bought the ATCs as "end-game" loudspeakers but the results have been baffling. The ATCs fire across the 3.63m width of the room and have been moved around. Cables are balanced Mogami Neglex 2534 with Neutrik XLR connectors.

The improvement in the sound quality is marginal. There is some more detail and air and sound staging, while the bass (to my surprise) is more extended and punchier. However, the improvements do not make anywhere near a compelling case for keeping the ATCs over my previous system. The balance is different for sure and probably more even (but I have no in-room measurements yet) but that can be corrected.

How can this be? Is there something wrong with my ears?! Or is my previous system better than I realised? How can a £16k (RRP) pair of ATCs not blow away my hotch-potch ancient hifi?

Can I emphasise that this is a genuine post and not an anti-ATC post. I am just baffled and grateful for others' insight.

I had plans to build point-to-point external crossovers for the R50s, and that plus room measurements and DSP would I think make the previous system indistinguishable from the ATC system, and at a fraction of the cost of the SCM50ASLT.
 
I would be looking firstly at the interaction of speakers and room in terms of how close or not they are to side and rear walls, and any acoustic treatments.

Secondly what sound are you trying to aim for? What are the key parameters? ATCs are very revealing and accurate but I wouldn’t put them in the wide, deep, holographic soundstage category.
 
The aspects of the previous system's character that I like and would like to retain are: good rhythm, pace and drive; deep tuneful bass; low listening fatigue. Aspects in which I'd like to see improvements: separation of instruments in a mix; detail retrieval; sound staging; revealing but not punishing.

The room is untreated, which I know is far from ideal, but then, these two systems are being evaluated in the same space and I have tried to allow for that.

I have adjusted the spce between side and front walls, toe-in and the like and that has brought some improvements but nothing which unlocks the ATC's reputed performance.
 
I think that it is true to say that the larger ATC's are not great at low ( ish ) volume and do respond to being driven at higher volumes.

But that doesn't suit every room nor every listener.
 
cooky1257 said:
I would. SCM100ASL here. Took a while to get them positioned right through as they are very dependant on set up in my experience.
Click to expand...
It’s very possible I demoed the 50a in a less than ideal set up at a dealer. I’ve always found Avalon, Wilson and some electrostatic designs (MLs) to do that super deep soundstage that I didn’t hear in the 50a or other ATCs I’ve listened too
On the other hand they are super detailed, accurate, revealing and their midrange is amazing!
 
Matthew J said:
What's your system @cooky1257 and where did you find optimal positioning to be?
Click to expand...
Linn Akurate DSM3/benchmark DAC3/klotz Titanium xlrs. Room 4.5x5.6m located either side of bay window 1.9 m apart toed in to fire down the room past my ears/ inner speaker sides visible from listening seat- distance from front wall in my case is only 10 cm though this is meaningless as my room not yours!
 
You state what your old system was, but it is unclear which pre-amp you are using with the ATCs. ATC speakers are very revealing of poor quality sources and preamps and not all preamps work well with the active ATCs. As others have said, room positioning is important with ATC speakers, my passive SCM40s can sound off if under 1 cm out of position in some directions. I have found once you get them into the right position for your room, then they come alive and the imaging is much improved. In my old room before I moved, they were not so critical of room positioning, in the new room once in the sweet spot I think they have never sounded so good.
 
Well, it should be of no surprise that such speakers require way more advanced front-end. Like 10k or so. Then there’s a synergy with a preamp which may now be of more importance.
 
Thanks @cooky1257. I know that every room is different but the position you ended up with is roughly the area which I found to work best, although with more space to the front wall.

@paulbysea No pre-amp. DAC's balanced output direct to ATCs. I tried them with the Trichord Orca with unbalanced to balanced cables but heard no meaningful difference (except for an irritating buzz). The SMLSL DAC does sound better than the Topping; I know that these are just £900 DACs but if they were offered for sale by a European company they'd be five times that price so RRP perhaps is misleading here.
 
Matthew J said:
No pre-amp. DAC's balanced output direct to ATCs.
Click to expand...
And did you previously use the DAC’s balanced output to drive your monoblocks? Not according to your opening post. I suspect the disappointment you experience has far more to do with your preamp than the ATCs. You’ve changed 2 variables and are blaming one. Can you stick the Trichord Orca pre back in?
 
@TheFlash The Alecto monoblocks have only unbalanced inputs, but I have used the DAC's unbalanced output to drive the monoblocks directly and then into the R50s. In fact, in one test I used the DAC's balanced output to drive the the ATCs and the unbalanced to drive the Alectos/R50s and switch between them in realtime. Not ideal because each loudspeaker was within the other's zone but useful nonetheless. The differences in sound quality were the same as when I tested the two systems individually.

I did try driving the ATCs with the Orca, but observed no real difference in sound quality compared to driving them directly from the DAC, but there was an irritating buzz which must come from having adapted unbalanced to balanced cables.

When I was using the Orca to drive the ATCs, I also tested the system with the Chord Qutest so reduced the number of components changed to the loudspeakers and power amplifiers. I'd say the Qutest faired less well than either of the other DACs, but again nothing dramatic either way.

@Phyztech How can introducing another component into the signal path improve sound quality? Both of the DACs can output in excess of 5v, which is more than enough to drive the ATCs.
 
Matthew J said:
.

@Phyztech How can introducing another component into the signal path improve sound quality? Both of the DACs can output in excess of 5v, which is more than enough to drive the ATCs.
Click to expand...

Preamps are doing way more than just outputing 5v. You’ve already seen that speakers themselves are far less important than people tend to think. Those dacs are nowhere near the needed level to make a balanced system with 50s.
 
Matthew J said:
The sound from this system is great, with great drive and dynamics and some sound staging and instrument separation. It plays music really well. However, with busy tracks the sound collapses
Click to expand...
Does this specific problem happen also with the Qutest? Of course other aspects may not be to your taste but I'm interested in this specific point. I suppose a related question is how long of a run did you give the Qutest?

Am a bit concerned about the hard floor. What is the listener and speaker positioning?
 
@darrenyeats Yes, this happens with the Qutest. I have been using that DAC in my system for about three years. I bought it initially as a CD player upgrade but didn't really hear much of a difference, and am now using just with the NP5.

The Topping and SMSL DACs are new and do represent an improvement in sound quality across the board, although leading edges on the D70 are sometimes a bit razor-eged (but not harsh).

As for positioning, I have tried them between 200mm and 2m from the front wall (measured from the front baffle), from 1.5m to 2.8m apart (centre to centre) and from pointing straight-ahead to pointing at my ears (all variations in-between and in combination).

Yes, the hard floor is not ideal but then when researching these loudspeakers I didn't see a single photo of them in a carpeted room and most seemed to have no treatment, yet the sound quality seemed to match the listener's expectations.
 
How many pages will we get of "it's everything else in your system that's wrong, not the ATCs" ?

Maybe you just don't like the ATCs.

Phyztech said:
Preamps are doing way more than just outputing 5v.
Click to expand...
What are they doing? Unless the output impedance of these Dacs are stupidly high which a preamp might buffer. But I don't think that will be the case with those DACs.
 
Phyztech said:
You’ve already seen that speakers themselves are far less important than people tend to think.
Click to expand...
Qk0Ivlp.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top