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Differences Between LFD and Naim

All I needed, to obtain all this, was adding a latest TeddyCap to my SuperNait.

I'm not even sure you are serious making that post. It says nothing whatever about LFD, but shows that the Supernait is not up to the job ( as far as you are concerned) without a power supply 'upgrade'.

So.

I bought an amplifier which drives my speakers to my absolute satisfaction, as it stands. It perfectly fulfills my requirement for a simple, very good sounding integrated amp.

It seems that you bought an amplifier with an inadequate integral power supply and had to get an 'upgrade' to make it sound the way you thought it ought to.

So... your point is?
 
A few threads (as of now) below this there is a thread whose title appears to question whether Naim is ‘snake oil’ - well compared to LFD Naim is extremely prosaic in terms of its electrical engineering. LFD are very much believers in components having a sound of their own and the upgraded version of an amp often differs only in that it has some different internal wire or a different brand of capacitor in one part of the circuit. If you look at the the pictures of the LFD internals you can see that the + and - of the speaker outputs are wired with quite different cables, for example. Many (most) electrical engineers would class this kind of design feature as actual ‘snake oil’.


On the other hand an electrical engineer might look at the picture and think that the output has the cable as part of the zobel network and the ground return wire to be set to have a specific resistance to help with driving capacitive loads.
 
There's a lot of comparison to Naim with Exposure, and since I've owned both and currently listen with LFD power and phono I'll blather on it a little. I wouldn't attribute any similarity to them. Perhaps Naim with Exposure based on a shared forward character, but I preferred Exposure for what I heard as more balance across frequencies. LFD is a completely different thing. Mine is older (PA0-se), and resembles the mkIII's guts. It is balanced, musical, detailed and natural sounding. It's a very pleasing presentation. I run with two subs, so there's no issue for me with lows. I prefer it to both Naim and Exposure, but I don't drive big speakers or listen loud. That would change the calculous, I'm sure. It's sensitive, so there's not much usable twist on the volume knob.

Not a lot of experience with phono stages, and what I have was with basic gear -- Nad, Rega and Cambridge, in that order. They each sounded better in that same order, too. Then I bought a 2nd hand LFD phono figuring I could recoup on resale, but I've kept it with no plans on parting with it. It compliments the amp very well I think. It doesn't sound any more or less exiting to me than the others, but it imparts the same character traits as the LFD amp and suits the system much better than the Cambridge CP it replaced. Much.
 
On the other hand an electrical engineer might look at the picture and think that the output has the cable as part of the zobel network and the ground return wire to be set to have a specific resistance to help with driving capacitive loads.

I guess....if he had a particularly vivid imagination.
 
Those people questioning LFD 'build quality' are seemingly incapable of distinguishing between 'build quality' and 'cosmetics'. The build quality is superb. Very neat internally and featuring proper components, properly put together on proper boards...

The LFD innards look pretty rudimentary actually.
Just a single stereo amplifier board and the line stage must be passive with no relays or fancy optocoupler switching to be seen.
Why spend on fancy flat output wiring to speaker terminals but leave input signals to be transmitted by a mere computer ribbon cable?

The most obvious visible difference from Naim or Expo is their choice of multiple small smoothIng caps.

That’s not to say LFDs shouldn’t sound good though.
 
The LFD innards look pretty rudimentary actually.
Just a single stereo amplifier board and the line stage must be passive with no relays or fancy optocoupler switching to be seen.
Why spend on fancy flat output wiring to speaker terminals but leave input signals to be transmitted by a mere computer ribbon cable?

The most obvious visible difference from Naim or Expo is their choice of multiple small smoothIng caps.

That’s not to say LFDs shouldn’t sound good though.

Being rudimentary is something that LFD would agree with. The ribbon cable is used because the designer felt no sonic benefits in changing it. The volume pots also look cheap, but are actually a custom design based on an old Alps pot.

The magic of LFD, if you can call it that, is in the extreme level of circuit tuning and components selection, and the overall minimalism of them. You can see this with the multiple capacitor and resistor types, as well as wiring choices. Note that this doesn’t necessarily mean ‘expensive’.

Here’s what the inside of my PA2M (SE) looks like.

lfd2_zpsq1t6ao4j.png
 
Why spend on fancy flat output wiring to speaker terminals but leave input signals to be transmitted by a mere computer ribbon cable?

I’ve seen it in a lot of amps including my JC Verdier valve preamp:

15961345743_f8d955f3a8_b.jpg


It makes sense as it is good quality solid core cable and easy to terminate. Easy to replace too so very serviceable long-term. Initially I thought it was a bit ‘cheap’ to be lurking inside a £2k+ high-end preamp, but the more I think about it the more I respect the design decision. It appeals to my computer geek side too!
 
It makes sense as it is good quality solid core cable and easy to terminate. Easy to replace too so very serviceable long-term. Initially I thought it was a bit ‘cheap’ to be lurking inside a £2k+ high-end preamp, but the more I think about it the more I respect the design decision. It appeals to my computer geek side too!

I’d celebrate the designer’s material sourcing brilliance if it weren’t for the fact that the savings doesn’t seem to have been passed on to me, the consumer.
 
I’d celebrate the designer’s material sourcing brilliance if it weren’t for the fact that the savings doesn’t seem to have been passed on to me, the consumer.

Good design hardly ever equates to materials cost! I’ve never heard LFD so can’t comment there, but the Verdier certainly sounds like a very good preamp and I really like the way it is made as there is absolutely nothing in there that can’t very easily be replaced. It will last forever. The stuff I really don’t want to see in hi-fi kit is bespoke chips, LCD displays, lots of surface-mount stuff as basically that equates to a 10-15 year lifespan and when it breaks it is landfill. The Verdier is just as long-term serviceable as say a classic Quad 22 or Leak Point One.

PS For a perfect example of price/performance/prestige look no further than say a Fender Strat or Tele. These represent the cheapest possible way to make an electric guitar. Leo Fender was a genius, he designed these things so simply, so perfectly, and so easy to make. Highly desirable design classics, some of the best guitars on the planet, yet so, so much cheaper to make than say a Gibson Les Paul or high-end Japanese thru-neck guitar. This is not reflected in the price!
 
I went to my dealer and told him I wanted to replace my long term choice of big valve monos and a valve pre, with a quality integrated. I was also curious about LFD stuff, having first seen, (but not heard) LFD kit in the listening room at the Tannoy plant around 1991.
I initially listened to the LFD Zero MkV and the Sonneteer Orton at the dealer's and the latter won. However a later extended home 'dem' also including a Sugden A21 allowed the LFD to exhibit the characteristics I outlined above. The Sugden was nice, but not really capable of driving my speakers. A bit of an unfair comparison anyway as it's half the price.
The Sonneteer Orton threw a huge, but very poorly defined soundstage, with everything seemingly competing with everything else for space and no real indication of where anything was placed in the mix.

This, from the owners/founders of LFD.

LFD Audio Design Philosophy
At LFD we believe that audio amplifiers can be most easily optimised if the basic amplifier
topology is kept as simple as possible. Feedback is generally kept to a minimum, provided
the distortion is sensibly low. We do not accept that very low distortion produces subjective
improvements. Actually it is more preferable to have slightly higher total harmonic distortion
that possesses higher levels of lower harmonics, compared to a lower figure made up from
higher harmonics.Also it is important to have well designed signal routing and Earthing
combined with the best selection of high quality passive components.

This philosophy normally produces amplifiers that may at first appear unusual. Typically the
Printed Circuit Boards (PCB) will be topologically laid out according to the circuit and will
always utilise star Earthing. Signal routing within the amplifier topology is kept to an
absolute minimum when transferred onto the PCB and is typically 5 times shorter in length
than an average amplifier. We do not advocate the use of signal routing on a PCB, since
subjective evaluation has established that high quality audio cables exhibit less degradation
compared to printed circuit board tracks. Consequently, it may be found that there is more
wiring within an LFD amplifier compared to its immediate competition. Each separate cable
assembly is subjectively evaluated to establish the best possible choice. Often single strand
cables and multistrand cables will be mixed within a given product.

The selection of passive components is a very important factor in the design of an amplifier.
Subjective evaluation is essential in this selection, together with reliability. It has been found
that the most optimum component for a particular circuit location, may differ from every
other similar part. As an example, it is not normally possible to use the same resistor type for
every resistor within an amplifier, each position must have a type that produces the best
subjective results. This process also applies to the choice of capacitor used within the circuit
and any capacitor used as a power supply decoupling component. The iterative procedure is
very time consuming and means that product development is slow and methodical. There is
no easy solution to this problem, but perseverance does bring its rewards of better sound
quality.
Power supply design plays an important part within any amplifier, so great care is required in
this area. Generally we believe local decoupling is beneficial within
an amplifier, combined with a main supply that exhibits low impedance even up to high frequencies. The power
supply return paths within an amplifier must be clean and well executed, otherwise there may
be undesirable coupling with the circuit. The mains transformer design also has an influence
on sound quality, and we have found that transformers with lower copper losses and better
regulation often confer improvements.
Many factors effect the subjective performance of an amplifier, so each one must be ca
refully addressed to produce an excellent sounding product. We believe that our philosophy does
bring rewards in the areas of better transparency, resolution and dimensionality. Remember
that fashions come and go, but true quality always lasts.

THE
LFD CHARTER TO PRODUCT COMMITMENT AND
TRADITIONAL VALUES
LFD Audio is a British audio company that applies traditional British values to design and manufacture
together with a total commitment to product excellence. To underline this ethos LFD have written a
“Charter to Product Commitment and Traditional Values” to explain both their design approach and
product support to their customers, dealers and distributors:

All audio system designs originate in the United Kingdom (UK) and are produced within the
company, there is no sub contracting of complete product to overseas companies or re
-badging of equipment totally manufactured outside the UK. As such all products have a distinctive quality and
design character often using original concepts that reflect the team’s many years of experience in
the field of audio research and design.
All product manufacture is undertaken within the UK and includes the preparation of circuit boards,
casework and product assembly. Often this process involves considerable hand craftsmanship
performed within the UK to achieve the final quality of finish.
LFD aspires to producing the finest sounding audio systems that reflects the highest standards of
the British audio tradition. Products incorporate a synthesis of high quality electronic design,
extensive subjective optimization and quality hand finishing. We aim to produce long lasting audio
equipment that will satisfy the human sensitivities of sound quality, visual and aesthetic appeal and
of touch.
Electronic components are sourced internationally and such effort is directed to discovering the best
parts and sub
-assemblies for product designs that conservatively match electronic performance
requirements and where appropriate, subjective appraisal. This philosophy is applied to
all aspects of a system including cabling, passive components, active devices and where appropriate, precision
mechanics.
LFD believe that the goal of audio engineering is to achieve the highest standards of sound quality.
The company openly admits and adheres to a programme of subjective optimization and recognises
the importance of evaluation as the final performance arbiter. However, we equally believe in
engineering excellence and in achieving the highest standards of objective performance
commensurate with system philosophy that is biased towards the minimalist school in terms of
signal processing.
The company supports the highest aspirations in performance of analogue audio equipment and is a
strong advocate of analogue reproduction via vinyl.
LFD has a total commitment to digital audio where we attempt an holistic philosophy that unites
analogue and digital systems in order to extract the highest performance from this medium. We
encourage and support only developments in digital audio that genuinely
advances sound quality.

Dr Richard Bews
Professor Malcolm Omar Hawksford
Managing Director
Technical Director

Mull
 
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I use an LFD NCSE integrated amplifier and MCTSE phono stage.

I have no experience with the NAIM or Exposure lines.

My understanding is that the chosen components were very carefully sourced and then rigorously tested by Dr. Bews prior to final selection, many are discarded if they fall below his exacting standards before he singlehandedly constructs the amplifiers etc.
Someone commented on another forum that the innards resemble a Croft component of years gone by.
Maybe, but the end result (whilst not to everyone’s preference) based on the sum of the parts and a very talented engineer’s nous has made for a great product.
He asked about my other components before I purchased - done blind incidentally - and said that the NCSE could be mite polite in the context. I use Sonus Faber Electa Amator IIs and as Stygian bass is not a necessity there isn’t an issue here.

For me listening is a pleasure, fatigue free and informative.

I’m very happy.

However, the cost has risen steadily, which is a great shame.
 
I’ve owned Naim and LFD and found the lfds to have a lovely, very natural balance to their tonality. Plenty of drive too.
I did get fed up with manual volume control though and the fact that there’s no official lfd website. This is important at the price point as you really want to know the tech-specs. There’s a very odd forum however, with what can be only described as “covert” LFD factoids being leaked by one man and that’s only if you sign up in the first place!?!?
 
Richard Bews has a PhD in electronic engineering and his Co conspirator in LFD is Malcolm Hawksford who is emeritus professor of Electronics at Essex university.

They could come with the personal recommendation of the pope but that wouldn't make your previous conjectures in any way factual.

On the other hand an electrical engineer might look at the picture and think that the output has the cable as part of the zobel network and the ground return wire to be set to have a specific resistance to help with driving capacitive loads.
 
They could come with the personal recommendation of the pope but that wouldn't make your previous conjectures in any way factual.


Didn’t say it did, so don’t really see what point you are trying to make.
 
Can you make your question clearer, as in what do you want to know.
 
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Can you make your question clearer, as in what do you want to know.

What was the reason you pointed out the two people associated with the design are both highly respected and qualified audio design engineers?
 


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