Your road to audio serenity

[TonyScarlett]

Alan Shaw has stated that he quotes a minimum power that is sufficient so people don't feel obliged to go out and buy expensive amps. I've never heard him be concerned about driving them to destruction, and I've been to demos with very powerful amplifiers used. The analogy is you wouldn't buy a car with too little power, but you would buy a car with more power than needed and drive it sensibly.

He's made his views known about valve amps over the years. He has mentioned that he has a pile of Quad amps that he has used for decades and gets serviced. They have also used Hegel for demo purposes. So I reckon he didn't count on people going out and buying expensive low power valve amps.

When I got Harbeth SHL5+ I had a very expensive 20w SET and the bass was woolly and basically rubbish. Bought a Quad 909 for £500 and they came to life. A change to 909 Mono and QMP had some minimal benefit, but Devialet 250 Pro gave them more speed (with less power than the Quad, but still more than enough).

I use my P3ESR with a 40w Audiolab M-One which is fine for low listening levels in my office and with headphones. So I agree with NagraBoy on that, except my unit cost £650 new and also has an excellent DAC. I used to use a 909 with them that came from my main system. Again, the P3ESR come alive in a larger room with more power. With less power they will go loud, but with flabby bass. If you keep the bass sharp down to its limit of about 55-60Hz and add a 300w sub, Bob's your uncle.

It is a crying shame that people invest in Harbeth speakers, which are not exactly cheap, and use an expensive amplifier that they think will make them sound better, but when pushed actually makes them sound worse. I think people, Stereophile included, get a little beguiled by the midrange and don't really appreciate how good the bass can be from the 8" Radial2, even the 5" in the P3's.

I get what your saying but the fact is I live in a small flat so don't have the opportunity or indeed these days the inclination to play my music loud. In fact one of the appeals of the Harbeths is that they sound just as good at lower volume levels, not something that can be said of some other speakers. As I stated in a previous post I have not felt the need to use my sub with these speakers & have now removed it completely from my system, they give me all the bass I need or want on top of that beguiling midrange.

 

[YNWOAN]

My speakers/system (these days) sounds very rewarding at low volumes and also at street entertaining volumes (that’s not an exaggeration). Ultimately this requires kilowatts (no, I’m not exaggerating) of potential power; but it still requires suprsing headroom for low listening levels.

 

[sls4321]

I get what your saying but the fact is I live in a small flat so don't have the opportunity or indeed these days the inclination to play my music loud. In fact one of the appeals of the Harbeths is that they sound just as good at lower volume levels, not something that can be said of some other speakers. As I stated in a previous post I have not felt the need to use my sub with these speakers & have now removed it completely from my system, they give me all the bass I need or want on top of that beguiling midrange.

Indeed, low volume performance is one of the main reasons why I moved to Harbeth from PMC Fact.8, which when I sold them cost twice as much as the SHL5+ I replaced them with.

More power still provides better bass even at low volume. See YNWOAN above. If you are listening in a smaller space, there is no need to spend a lot on an amplifier. A principal Harbeth philosophy is that they don't require expensive amplifiers and so out of the money can be spent on the speakers. It means you get a better value for money system overall.

That's why the £1,500 Quad Solus is such a great unit to pair with P3ESR, 75wpc, DSD DAC, CD player, including usb and bluetooth inputs. I use the Audiolab M-One and the Quad Vena is an alternative, fine for near field. The P3ESR also sound excellent with my son's refurbished 50wpc 1980's refurbished Inca Tec Claymore that cost £375 including the rebuild and includes a superb mm/mc phono stage.

 

[retrospective]

The thrill is in the chase

 

[MVV]

The thrill is in the chase

...and oddly the things being chased have nothing to do with audio equipment or music.

 

[Jonboi]

Getting off the audiophile upgrade ladder, and away from the audiophile mindset.

Appreciating that no HiFi, no matter how good, is ever as good as live music.

Learning to listen to the music again, and not the HiFi.

Investing in kit that looks fabulous, doesn't require audiophile pseudo science to get the best out of it; does equal justice to music and movies, and is a joy to live with and use.

Cheers..and Merry Xmas to All.

 

[Conan]

I spend more time and have more fun listening to music in my car when commuting than at home on the system that I have been investing ££££ for over 20 years.

 

[James]

Building an acoustic-friendly and even-handed dedicated listening room about 6 or 7 years ago. That was my ultimate upgrade.

But I learnt about hifi decades ago and chased that holy grail for yonks.

 

[Seanm]

I've swapped one of my tonearms for the other and am now satisfied with neither. Phew. Serenity averted. For a moment there it looked like I was going to have to start sweating the big stuff.

 

[Jonqpr]

Location is first get right must, average home is not good for hifi, poor mains, poor acoustics and not good for sharing with living space, unless you have lots of money. If you do purpose built studio is a must. Natural timbre of signal is biggest get right for me, valves do it better when it comes to amps. Personally like transformer pre amps and good cables are important too. First reply big tannoy with valves is there, good horns or open baffle work for me. Do really like electrostatics and have heard some great systems with them. Ok sure most readers Know all this already, but nice to get involved.

 

[foxwelljsly]

So far for me, it’s been about listener fatigue, aiming towards long term listenability, to this end I’m currently using (small) Spendor’s.

Last piece of the jigsaw has been the introduction of a sub, obviously to add what is missing but also with the ability to tune the bass to my liking.

Currently using cheap as chips front end and old budget amp, I’m pretty happy.

Same here. Quad 520 and Spendor SP2/2's with an ickle BK sub tackling the very bottom end. Although fed from a less budgety Linn Akurate Kontrol on dac pre and phono duties. I've had Spendor SP2's before, but on the end of an Exposure amp in far smaller room on top of a A/V unit and they were nice, but not as good as these sound, which is sublime. I'd like to try some ESL's in here at some point, mind.

My best upgrade, by far, has been a dedicated largish (4.5m x 8m) listening room with a comfy sofa and an open fire. It only has speakers, stereo, record collection, Chesterfield sofa and a 19th century nursery chair in it right now, although I have a 16th century settle arriving today or tomorrow to complete the furnishings. I'm contemplating moving the stereo and record collection into an annex room for the ultimate in isolation and minimalist antique furnishing vibe. Right now Planxty are providing a mildly festive soundtrack as we contemplate spending Xmas in quarantine as the toddler's just gone down with either chicken pox or HFMD.

 

[Mike Reed]

although I have a 16th century settle arriving today or tomorrow

Hope you've got some Tudor or Renaissance music to set the scene.

 

[foxwelljsly]

Hope you've got some Tudor or Renaissance music to set the scene.

What I really want is a stag's head and a suit of armour, but both those items have been embargoed by the wife throughout the house.

 

[uncl_nigel]

The sitting-room now has all the hifi including the LPs back in place after having the ceiling treated to kill the echo/

After 12 or more weeks with no and then limited access to my music I have been really enjoying the vinyl which I unpacked Friday night- just finished listening to Timbuk3, Cats on Tress, Abba, Carpenters... Next up Oisin (Planxty era Irish folk) and then something from Finland.

The acoustic grade rock wool under a micro-perforated stretch ceiling was worth its cost providing an increase in sound quality on a par with as much cash spent on an amp or source upgrade.

 

[Cav]

Every time I bought a system, I was in nirvana. Every time I changed something, I was in nirvana. What I have now, is nirvana.

What I have not embraced, and probably never will, is downloads and streaming.

 

[cromodora]

Airpods, on a hammock, out on the terrace looking at the stars.

 

[Dik Dolan]

I don't know about serenity, but after over 4 years of not being able to bring myself to turn on my lovely valves n' vinyl system, then a couple of weeks ago I had to get a mobile phone (bank said I had to be able to receive texts for some reason). So I had a quick look around and O2 had the Nokia 1 on offer for £39 with a payg sim- seemed ideal. So having moved into the modern age, and having a play, I "discovered" Radio Paradise....along with wifi and Bluetooth, and today an Anker Soundcore speaker thingy seems to have arrived.
For the price (about £70) for the pair it sounds pretty good...way better than I thought it would, and its got me listening to music again.

Oops I forgot to include the £10 I used to top up the phone.. which O2 then gave me an extra £5 on top. So far I've used 18p=) It's cheaper to phone using the mobile than the virgin landline! Now I see why so many folk ditched landlines. I did turn off mobile data though... got to save that phone credit for when I might need it!

 

[Martyn Miles]

Speaker manufacturers quote recommended minimum amplifier power outputs to discourage people from overdriving low output amps into the speakers thus causing clipping which is extremely damaging to speakers. Valve amps don't clip when overdriven they just start to sound compressed. This is not damaging to the speakers (probably not good for the amp though). There is a lot of nonsense around which speakers work with which kind of amp, if it sounds good it is good. Valve & SS amps both produce an electrical signal to drive the speaker, there is only one kind of electricity.

I seem to recall one review of the P3ESR (think it was Stereophile but I may be mistaken) in which the reviewer speculated that Alan Shaw may have used a Quad Classic amp when developing the speakers because he felt they were so well matched.

I use what might be classed as a Quad ‘classic’ amp ( 34/303 ) with my Harbeth P3-ESRs and the combination sounds very good to me...

 

[stevec67]

Tablets and phones have revolutionised music. Ask someone under 25 how often they buy CDs.

 

[Woodface]

I think ignorance of 'hi-fi' is probably the surest way to bliss. Having said that I do think having a separate room from rest of family is the most important factor to enjoying music. The current trend for open plan living is not good if you have a record collection.