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Young DSD dac review

[...]one minute a DAC is immune to noise and jitter - then along comes an upgrade with a better clock and power supply. You can bet your bottom dollar the next version will wash even cleaner . . .

Mark, loaded question I'm aware, but a real one nonetheless:

Do you therefore believe that we're now at the "as good as it gets" point? Are we getting to "all DACs are the same"?

If not can explain what you mean by the quote snippet I've taken?
 
Can anyone explain to me what ‘digitally controlled analogue volume control’ means? I think at some point I’ll got he DAC / Pre to actives but have always been put off digital volume controls since hiss and noise floor is a pet hate of mine. I was thinking something like the Benchmark DAC2 as it seems to have a well implemented analogue volume but what about this new Young? It is clearly not as simple as digital or analogue either, I’m confused!
I largely agree with Darren. To put what he says slightly differently...

With modern dacs/software which implement the volume control with very high precision maths (32 bits upwards, although I suspect 24 is enough) and dithering there isn't really anything wrong with digital volume controls as such.
The villain of the piece is excessive gain downstream which forces use of the vc at low levels *and*amplifies any upstream noise or self noise in the power amp.
 
Adam,
Aside from channel balance, IMHO it just sounds better with digital volume when set up as described. But stepped attenuators tend to have significantly better channel balance than normal pots at extreme settings.
 
Mark, loaded question I'm aware, but a real one nonetheless:

Do you therefore believe that we're now at the "as good as it gets" point? Are we getting to "all DACs are the same"?

If not can explain what you mean by the quote snippet I've taken?

We've seen rapid progression re: USB audio interfaces over the last decade to the point where I think you might now claim that that particular aspect of implementation has matured.

The advent of the Sabre chip showed that there was plenty of room for evolution - if not revolution - in the core D-A engine.

However, the back end of the DAC is perhaps only now receiving the attention it deserves: I think we'll look back at most DACs from the noughties and rightly say: “My, weren't they boring!” It always was the case that the 'preampness' of the DAC was largely what you were listening to. And that's very largely a function of what you're prepared to spend. DACs will never sound identical any more than preamps sound identical. In fact, they're much better differentiated because of differences in digital technology.

The other long-neglected area now also receiving proper attention is the upstream side of USB: the computer is such a 'partner' in the DAC's behaviour that I suspect it won't be long before we see DACs coming with matched USB cards instead of just drivers.

But digital technology rapidly converges on a threshold on someone's definition of 'good enough'. We see this in processor technology, computer monitors, TVs, etc. And yet it drives forward, too. DVDs suddenly look abysmal after BluRay . . .

So, no I'm sure we'll never reach the point where all DACs sound the same because it still takes expensive hardware to do it properly - particularly the analog bits. An extremely low-noise environment is still fiendishly difficult to create. Top-flight low-jitter clock implementations still require 'exotic' control over temperature, vibration and parasitic noise. I think we'll still be wrestling with all the above for another few decades. Then, who knows . . .
 
Adam,
Aside from channel balance, IMHO it just sounds better with digital volume when set up as described. In general though, stepped attenuators tend to have better channel balance at extreme settings.
I'm sure you're right. I think it's interesting that the concern about what digital volume controls might do wrong has forced people to think a little more generally about gain staging and volume controls generally. I still find it odd though that people can get worked up about the possible losses from say 24 bit or even 32 bit volume controls when it is fiendishly difficult/expensive to get resistors specified to fractions of 1%
 
I have lots of gain in my system and if using my M-dac digital preamp the display shows im running between 50 and 60db attenuation.

I run the M-dac Preamp deactivated and through a Passion passive preamp and this sounds better than using the M-dacs digital pre.

Channel balance of the Passion is 0.05db at all settings.
 
Yeah, 50-60db digital attenuation is way too much I think. I find 30db day to day and 10db when really going loud is reasonable.
 
Yeah, 50-60db digital attenuation is way too much I think. I find 30db day to day and 10db when really going loud is reasonable.

As a test I ran the M-dacs digital preamp through the passive with the passive volume wide open and M-dac 50db then start to turn the volume down on the passive and the M-dac up so as to keep the volume the same level and kept doing this until the passive was nearly all the way closed and the M-dac +3db and doing this you can really hear the effect the digital preamp makes.
With M-dac the change from 3db to +3db can be heard but when its way down in the 60 db range it sounds thin and pale.
 
With M-dac the change from 3db to +3db can be heard but when its way down in the 60 db range it sounds thin and pale.
John,
Did you mean
With M-dac the change from -3db to +3db can't be heard but when its way down in the 60 db range it sounds thin and pale. ?
 
How close is the Young in SQ to the AURALiC Vega or Eximus DP1? I've read these two are both very good and difficult to separate, so the Eximus wins on price for me but doesn't do DSD.

Hi there,

I've not compared the Young tbh.

Most DACs are very similar, so it's more a question of your system, needs, and how much you're willing to spend. If you use headphones and wish to connect your DAC direct to an amplifier, then the DP1 wins on value.

Regards,
Peter
 
How close is the Young in SQ to the AURALiC Vega or Eximus DP1? I've read these two are both very good and difficult to separate, so the Eximus wins on price for me but doesn't do DSD.

It's really hard to borrow a second-hand opinion on that question.

Some say DACs are all pretty much the same - in which case converters like the Emotiva XDA2 and Stealth or the TEAC that do pretty much everything possible for less than £500 are the ones you should go straight out and buy - and spend the money on speakers or music.

However, many find that the 'preampness' of a DAC - especially when used direct to power - and the quality of the USB interface, are significant. But there's no 'one size fits all'. It's crucial to have a few converters in your system, side-by-side, to see which fits best. That's why we push the home loan so much: it really is the only way (for you!) to answer your question.
 
We can send you a unit Jammy , borrow the other two and compare them, I would be interested to hear your thoughts.
Remember to level match the volume though, as something like the Auralic has a very high
output level, and it will sound 'better' , louder = better.
Keith.
 
Just to clarify, the volume control in the Young DSD, is a monolithic stepped attenuator, on chip with very, very high precision, high accuracy, pretty much zero imbalance. It's controlled with digital logic via a rotary encoder.

The Young is up there with a few other blameless dacs from a few other makers, Benchmark, Weiss, Resonsecence, and a few of the Asian ones.
 
Just to clarify, the volume control in the Young DSD, is a monolithic stepped attenuator, on chip with very, very high precision, high accuracy, pretty much zero imbalance. It's controlled with digital logic via a rotary encoder.

The Young is up there with a few other blameless dacs from a few other makers, Benchmark, Weiss, Resonsecence, and a few of the Asian ones.

That sounds the same as the volume control in my Jeff Rowland Capri S2 preamp, in which case I would expect it to sound excellent.
 
I think the IC's are a generation apart, the one in the Young DSD is an eight channel part, ganged for lower distortion.
 


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