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Wot CDP rail grease?

martin clark said:
Captain - I might have missed a word in my first post then! Apologies - my point is as you have divined, that cleaning the laser, unless deeply obscured - is not the first thing to address. So cleaning the moving mechanical parts of the mech, will be.

In case it helps - an illustration:

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...ta-pit-pitch-and-laser-spot-dimensions-14.png

Look how abruptly-focused the laser is, the relative scale is about right as drawn - to a spot c 0.8 micron (0.0008mm). Look at the diameter of the lens involved - a few ten-microns size bits of dust have negligible effect on 'reading' the disc - and this is deliberate (also a nifty use of the laser wavelength, vs. refraction coefficients of air, and the polycarbonate used for the body of a CD etc !)

I cannot begin to convy the sense in Arabic or Farsi. Farce, much more likely - ATB.
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Hi Martin, great Im sort of there now. Its a fairly complicated matter this focus thing then. I'd never contemplated it before, soIm learning from this thread at the least.

Would you know, or have you ever attempted, to change just the -laser- section of a transport? Ibelieve this is the smal 1" sq black lump the lens is housed in, & its joined-on adjacent black section 'below' this too (which attatches to the rail, or rails).

Im now you see delving into what constitutes the laser "projector" component, & the constituent parts.. if.. I might assume this laser "is on it's way out" as Mike P suggests is a possibility. And whether this is possible I could attempt (if an exact replacement 'laser' is sourced that is).
 
Have a look on AliExpress for KSS-213CJM - this seems to have a clamping setup on the platter, is that same as what you’re looking for?
 
Dowser said:
Have a look on AliExpress for KSS-213CJM - this seems to have a clamping setup on the platter, is that same as what you’re looking for?
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Hi dowser,

thing is from research online, these are said to be cheap chinese copys. A genuine sony K... I think, is n/a. But the ones I see, such as your suggestion shoukd I put this code into ebay, show only a partial section of the transport.

What Im trying to establish, prior to being in a position to search for something, is distinguishing section A from B. And thus what constitues a " transport ", & a "laser ".

And from here, whether it is normal practise/ feasable.. to change just a section.. instead of changing the larger section. And it follows that if the fallible part is the "laser" ( as seems to be most often the case in cdp's) then could this be changed, just this bit. The laser. Whatever 'the laser' actually materialises as.

For an analogy: if my thermostat is known to be kaput on my car, & this section is inherrantly tethered to the side of the engine.. one could replace the whole engine (assuming thermostat comes with it), or, just replace the thermostat. A new thermostat is £30. A new engine is £500.

Thanks, Capt.
 
I’ve ordered loads (well, 5 or 6) via AliExpress and all worked fine. Almost all copies sure, but same for laser units themselves :)

Yes you can replace just the laser assembly, pretty straightforward job. But before you go this route, check the white plastic molded rails on the assembly that the laser slides back and forth on - inspect for cracks - if you can’t feel the crack with your fingernail, it’ll work fine. If you can feel it likely you will get very (sometimes very, very!) intermittent skipping. Also make sure to oil the spin motor, another common issue in these mechs.

laser unit is what you linked to on eBay, laser transport or mechanism is the whole thing. Note that most eBay items are AliExpress stock sold for a huge markup…IMVHO :)

See https://a.aliexpress.com/_EwQJ6AV :)
 
Yes, swapping just the laser unit into the rest of the mech is eminently feasible, I've done it, and also cross-pollinated a few - e.g. original observation that the unavailable VAM1205 with hall effect motor, is just a VAM1204 with different disc motor - hence just buy a 1204, and swap the laser - for many Naim boxes, and similar.

The 'gotchas' are simple - take anti-static precautions.

The laser detector PIN diodes in the opical pickup 'block' are 'sensitive, to-very-sensitive' to ESD; if (as usu) there is a shorting clip on the 'contacts' end of the ribbon cable on the new bit you are going to fit, leave it until the last possible moment to remove, and work in a static -safe way. Which is not difficult or expensive, just a 'strategy to keep in mind' approach is enough & can be done on your kitchen table: for basic antistatic / ESD precautions, you can find loads of good info on youtube etc.
 
martin clark said:
Yes, swapping just the laser unit into the rest of the mech is eminently feasible, I've done it, and also cross-pollinated a few - e.g. original observation that the unavailable VAM1205 with hall effect motor, is just a VAM1204 with different disc motor - hence just buy a 1204, and swap the laser - for many Naim boxes, and similar.

The 'gotchas' are simple - take anti-static precautions.

The laser detector PIN diodes in the opical pickup 'block' are 'sensitive, to-very-sensitive' to ESD; if (as usu) there is a shorting clip on the 'contacts' end of the ribbon cable on the new bit you are going to fit, leave it until the last possible moment to remove, and work in a static -safe way. Which is not difficult or expensive, just a 'strategy to keep in mind' approach is enough & can be done on your kitchen table: for basic antistatic / ESD precautions, you can find loads of good info on youtube etc.
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I just wear one of those cheap antistatic wrist bands (suitably earthed of course). I've changed dozens of lasers and never killed one yet.

On the KSS-213 it's a little solder bridge that you have to desolder rather than a clip.
 
Mike P said:
I just wear one of those cheap antistatic wrist bands (suitably earthed of course). I've changed dozens of lasers and never killed one yet.

On the KSS-213 it's a little solder bridge that you have to desolder rather than a clip.
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Hey this sounds great Mike P/ your info above etc re. changing just the laser. Great help there.

What I'll do is 1st up then: remove transport, inspect rail for cracks, regrease rail (& other cog bits if I'm brave too).. see how it performs.

If then, as I'm reasonably sure this won't fix it, I'm still getting this skipping.. I'll read up on your laser redo idea. I've seen a clip of a tiny desolder, albeit an apollo + new sanyo transport install (youtube clip).. giving me a hint.

FWIW the skipping happens similar areas cd to cd, IE starts track 4 ish, & usually worst in middle of a cd. Never first few songs it seems, & gets better last few songs too. Does that symptom suggest something I wonder.

Anyway will report back after my greasings.

Thanks chaps, Capt.
 
Hi Martin. This info gives me confidence.. fantastic. Quite alot of detail re. static to comprehend.. but I'll cross that bridge as of when. Need to re-read all the posts before I decide to go for the laser section replacement.. & of course try all other remedy possibilities beforehand.

Thanks so much for your help, Capt
 
Ali or Ebay from China can be hit and miss as practically all of them are copies, for little insurance I ended up buying from European suppliers, of course they are same chinese copies and few £‎ or € more but you get better/faster response in case of DOA. However that worsening at exact tracks or laser positions may point to laser sleds or driving gears.
 
ansis said:
Ali or Ebay from China can be hit and miss as practically all of them are copies, for little insurance I ended up buying from European suppliers, of course they are same chinese copies and few £‎ or € more but you get better/faster response in case of DOA. However that worsening at exact tracks or laser positions may point to laser sleds or driving gears.
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Hi Ansis,

Useful info thanks there. Well first post of call is to do the bits I can, & you can't go too wrong at: IE adding silicone grease to the single rail- this I've just done too. And listening to first cd right now since done (jon hopkins). So I've got my fingers crossed as I type, song 1 underway.. early doors tho. Jon hopkins is about the worst cd to choose as its all blips & beeps!!

[edit.. dammit the cd skips on song 2: it also gets stuck this time, at exactly the same place.. & skips backwards 30 secs, then same thing happens.. so you can't get past this 'scratch' & have to fwd to song 3].

The good design let's me lift out the transpost remarkably simply. 2 tiny allen bolts only, pull fwd & lift out whole 'tray' the whole mech screwed to the tray's underside. P'easy this bit. Apollo youtube clip showed me how.

There's one ribbon cable connecting the transport to the main pcb tho. Now this has both ends with a blue end bit. Does anyone know if these can be gently prized out of their white plastic 'seats' at either end? IE I can separate it at either end?

Thanks, Capt
 
Check green plastic rail for cracks and red gears for dirt in teeths

Sony-KSS-213-KSS-213-Q-1-for-Accuphase-550pix.jpg


Those ribbon cables are LIF or low insertion force, you can disconnect them carefully if needed but first must solder antistatic jumper on laser board so not to damage laser diode.
 
@ansis Hi there- very useful pics, many thanks indeed ansis/ invaluable in fact.

I hadn't realised there was a second rail! ( I mean ffs how is it meant to run on one.. I now say to myself.)

So the second rail is plastic.. & therefore far more fallible, now I understand. You see I'm a step behind; actually I can't yet get access to see the cogs ( or this 2nd rail) due to this ribbon hampering me. So I need to disconnect it.

I'm not quite on board with the static jumper though. I can solder fine. So then, I shouldn't just gently prize the ribbon from the transport ( or from the motherboard pcb: it seems the transport end looks easier access). I need to do a static jumper thingy first.

Could you fill me in on this? I'm sure it's simple, but seems important.

Thanks, Capt
 
Woohoo! just played a cd without skipping! Not sure if it just likes The Handsome Family, but nevertheless.

To recap- I simply cleaned off & silicone'd the metal rail ( the only one I could see to do) as a tentative first step.

I noticed the 2nd time I played jon hopkins cd earlier ( immediately after greasing rail), it played better than 1st time: IE I played it twice in a row. The 'scratch' type stuck thing on track 2 (30 secs & it skipped / went back/ ad nauseum etc) didnt happen the 2nd play at all. Though it did skip badly middle of cd as before.

I wonder if the rail(s) are just dry & the silicone grease needs a bit of time to spread/ disperse to lubricate proceedings. I'll attempt to get at the 2nd placcy rail tmrw. So damn easy just getting it out for a good peep.

Thanks, Capt.
 
Hi again chaps,

I need a bit if help. As said I need to take out the whole tray, which has the transport attatched conveniently underneath it. There's 1- ribbon connector preventing me from removing the tray.

Ansis, & somewhere else mentions to "..but first must solder antistatic jumper on laser board so not to damage laser diode" prior to undoing the ribbon connector.

But I have no idea where this solder addition is meant to go, nor what it actually is ( a wire joining A to B? A wire joining only to A? ). I only know -approximately- what it is for.

Could someone help?

Thanks, Capt
 
martin clark said:
One clean crocodile clip works well as an alternative to getting out the iron.
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Hi Martin.

I'm fine to get out the iron.. but I don't know what one earth I am to do with it.

Apparantly there is a "static jumper" to.. well I don't know.. make? Fabricate?

I have no idea what this might look like, nor where it might be added to/ anything at all about it.

Could you help explain? Thanks, Capt
 
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