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Winter election

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In all honesty, does it matter one iota what time of year? We're talking about electorates that have stepped on rakes in casting ballots of hopium so many times the thwack doesn't even register anymore. Given the myriad clusterf**ks career politicians have foist on the rake heads in the last 30 years alone there's no logical conclusion other than the party affiliated amount to material automatons.
 
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SteveS1 said:
A thoughtful piece, but I think an election is unlikely to provide much clarity, unless someone stuffs up as May did.
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Maybe, but it offers the possibility of shifting the dial one way or the other. The HoC is so finely balanced right now that any change in the numbers could prove decisive.

Ruling out an accidental No Deal is essential, and I'm not averse to having another go at a second referendum vote (though I doubt it will pass the HoC), but both things need to happen quickly. The alternative is stasis and, in the worst case, Brexit by exhaustion.
 
HarryB said:
Really? Johnson wants an election so do the opposite. Since becoming PM everything your glorious leader has touched has turned to shit. Will you be joining the search parties looking in ditches next week?
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I’d no more vote for Johnson than I’d vote for Corbyn. You must have me confused with another. Labour would only get my vote at the moment if it was a straight shootout between them and the Brexit Party in my constituency, this is unfortunately a possibility. If that’s the case I will vote Labour. Otherwise I will vote Green as they actually match my political principals. It’s a shame that like Labour they have no chance of forming a government.
 
The UK system is such that we are going to get either Tory or Labour "ideology" (for want of a better word). Voting in a manner than enables a Tory seat, or prevents what would otherwise be a Labour seat is voting for Tory ideology. Let's hope those doing this at the next GE don't whinge when they help enable more cuts to public services, hard-brexit etc etc. It's no good blaming Labour for your decision to enable a tory govt.

The LibDems had an opportunity in 2010 to change the 2 party domination by forcing a referendum on PR, however they ducked it in favour of getting stuck into the trough and the signs aren't good over their position at the next GE given they have a tory leader.
 
roman said:
Most of what you say is true, although it's also a failure of a dim and deceived electorate. While corbyn may have failed to finish off a weak government, he faces an almost impossible task in the face of the media, in particular the right wing press.

But I agree he's had his time and regretfully someone new needs to take charge.
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When did Corbyn actually take charge or did I miss something? No right thinking person could surely vote for him?

Regards

Richard
 
This is good:

https://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2019/10/brexit-in-limbo.html

Already posted on the main Brexit thread, but the final paragraphs address the question of a general election:
The various controversial issues just identified in the WAB, and others, may well be the subject of amendment if it emerges from its present ‘in limbo’ status (this, apparently, is the correct term for it, and it could just as well be applied to the entire Brexit situation). If so, it may yet pass, and Brexit may yet happen. However, the possibility is now intensifying that events will be delayed by a General Election and, if so, that represents possibly the last chance for Brexit to be averted.

That may sound a strange thing to say, given that Johnson himself is pushing for an election, now, weirdly, tying this giving more time to debate the WAB (not that much more, in fact). But - barring some very dramatic event - the only realistic route to remain now lies in a Labour administration – whether majority or minority – organizing another referendum (this would in turn entail yet another request to the EU for an extension).

The present parliament almost certainly isn’t going to vote, and legislate, for another referendum. On the other hand, if the WAB ever is debated by the present parliament then it is quite likely to end up passing. The Second Reading, after all, passed by 30 votes – allowing Johnson to make the wholly dishonest claim that his deal had been “passed” – and although many of those votes (it would only take 15) could peel away at Third Reading it looks plausible that it could squeak though. Even if it were heavily amended, most amendments (e.g. to seek a customs union) could easily be undone by a future government whereas, so long as it passed, then Brexit would have happened and there would be no way back. Also relevant here is that after 31 October there will be a new Speaker, who may well be less robust in defending the rights of parliament than John Bercow.
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If we must have Brexit, let's go out fighting with a bang, not a whimper.
 
HarryB said:
As for Johnson f@cking up in the campaign. Someone once said ‘events my dear boy’. Isn’t that London assembly probe into Johnson and the pole dancer still going on? Isn’t Johnson’s wife (the one who threw him out) remarkably quiet? What about his girlfriend who he obviously has a tempestuous relationship with. Is she ready to cash in her pension plan yet? Then there’s Johnson’s daughter (not much younger than his girlfriend) who refuses to speak to him. Add to that Johnson’s underlying sexism and racism and you have a powder keg that could blow any time.

Not forgetting the ditch of course.
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Only problems for people with morals and a conscience. Won't bother BJ at all.
 
I am not sure the season will make a jot of difference, many more people have access to personal transport compared to the 70s. I actually have a postal vote & have for years.
 
wacko said:
Only problems for people with morals and a conscience. Won't bother BJ at all.
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I’m deeply troubled with how society has changed in a decade or so. Nothing seems unacceptable any more. Short of being a convicted paedophile, the public seems to be willing to accept anything.

There’s a woman I see regularly when I’m walking my dogs and I’ve chatted to her many times over the past few years. She is a devout Christian who helps out at the local church and goes to service every Sunday. I was gobsmacked a couple of weeks ago when she was talking enthusiastically about Johnson.

I pointed out his repeated cheating on his wife, his lies and the fact nobody knows how many children he has. She wasn’t bothered.

I guess if someone like her isn’t bothered we’ve got no chance of seizing any moral high ground.
 
Nick_G said:
^Devout Chrisitan suckered by false prophet sent by Satan shocker...
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Nick, since she shocked me with her announcement that she’s a big Boris fan I’ve devoted a lot of time trying to understand it.

Maybe I’m overthinking it and the woman is just a complete hypocrite but I’m just trying to work out how she can rate a bloke who goes against everything she apparently stands for.
 
Tony L said:
Agreed. I can imagine the Tory attack campaign being along the lines of a picture of Corbyn with...
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Yes. However the reality is that they will attack *any* Labour (or other party) leader who seems willing and able to make the changes the UK needs. So whoever you come up with as an alternative leader falls into a binary divide.

1) Would change the way things are done in the UK and move away from being Tory/neoliberal policies. And would therefore face much the same "go for the man, not the ball" attacks paid for by those who benefit from bloodsucking the rest.

or

2) Won't change the way things are done and simply offers another coat of lipstick on the Tory/neoliberal pig (i.e. another Blair). And will get the support of those with money and power because he will leave them to go on as they fancy and just put up a show. In the process, reminding the Tories that they need to stay to the right for fear of not getting the money/support next time around.

Either way, the people with the money get what they want if people fall for it - again.

Oh well, if nothing else, having the Tories in power with a *genuine* alternative consistently on offer will expose that they 'own' what goes wrong. Giving in and going for (2) just gets us back to "they're all the same" which suits those with the money very nicely.
 
HarryB said:
Nick, since she shocked me with her announcement that she’s a big Boris fan I’ve devoted a lot of time trying to understand it.

Maybe I’m overthinking it and the woman is just a complete hypocrite but I’m just trying to work out how she can rate a bloke who goes against everything she apparently stands for.
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To be fair Marx wasn't a massive fan of religion. CofE often referred to as Conservative party at prayer.
 
Speaking of Marx @Woodface, it's obvious that we need a revolution. I'd like to see a grouping of socialist states setting up as an alternative to the EU in the first instance. We might have to play catch the American drone though...
 
gavreid said:
Speaking of Marx @Woodface, it's obvious that we need a revolution. I'd like to see a grouping of socialist states setting up as an alternative to the EU in the first instance. We might have to play catch the American drone though...
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The problem with revolutions is that total shits tend to end up in charge. Not many successful ones.
 
Woodface said:
The problem with revolutions is that total shits tend to end up in charge. Not many successful ones.
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Lot's of successful ones but the counter revolution is the key obstacle - I don't believe there's much theory on how to fight that, for obvious reasons...
 
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