WigWam Scalford 2014 pics etc

[S-Man]

Haha. I've said it over there so I guess Ill be banned from next year.

I really enjoyed our chat about bass systems on Sunday afternoon, i'd like ot learn more about that, any posts or white paper you can point me to?

Stefan

No, you will just get the coal bunker to exhibit in

There's a bit of discussion about the bass system here and in the Wigwam thread mentioned. I prefer not to discuss it further on PFM - mainly because there is nothing more that I can disclose about it:

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=151929&highlight=10Hz&page=7


If you are ever near Leeds, you are welcome to come and have a listen.

 

[Rick E]

So many negative comments in this thread.

What date is the PFM show and where is it? I really need to know what I've been missing.

 

[orangeart]

No, you will just get the coal bunker to exhibit in

There's a bit of discussion about the bass system here and in the Wigwam thread mentioned. I prefer not to discuss it further on PFM - mainly because there is nothing more that I can disclose about it:

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=151929&highlight=10Hz&page=7


If you are ever near Leeds, you are welcome to come and have a listen.

Cool I'll have a read. Not in Leeds to often but if I am I'll be sure to look you up

 

[Mad Latvian]

So many negative comments in this thread.

What date is the PFM show and where is it? I really need to know what I've been missing.

Nah - not so negative really. Surprised how many interesting posts on here, frankly.

 

[Robert]

So many negative comments in this thread.

What date is the PFM show and where is it? I really need to know what I've been missing.

Nonsense.
This has been a good natured, positive discussion about an excellent show.
Take your angst elsewhere.

 

[onlyconnect]

Quick write-up of my room here:

http://gadgets.itwriting.com/2844-fun-with-amplifiers-classic-naim-vs-modern-yamaha-integrated.html

Tim

 

[per-Sony-fied]

Controversy:

The most amusing room for me was the Naim 32.5 / HiCap / 250 blind-test vs. the Yamaha AS500. That was great fun, and yes, I picked the AS500 as better. Twice. As did another ex-32.5/Hicap/250 owning friend. Ok it was through a nice easy to drive pair of Quad 11Ls, but you'd be amazed by how close they sounded!

Hmm, the sound was really very close, surprisingly, but after a good 30 min session I thought the Naim was the clear winner. The one I'd rather live with. Easier on the ear, more atmospheric and open. In comparison I thought the Yamaha had a hard sheen, forward presentation and heavier more bloated bass.

 

[onlyconnect]

Hmm, the sound was really very close, surprisingly, but after a good 30 min session I thought the Naim was the clear winner. The one I'd rather live with. Easier on the ear, more atmospheric and open. In comparison I thought the Yamaha had a hard sheen, forward presentation and heavier more bloated bass.

See my final comment - but for anyone who preferred the Yamaha, or could not hear a difference, fret not, you had lots of company (and I presume that the great majority of the visitors consider themselves hifi enthusiasts).

Would be interesting to do a more rigorous amplifier blind test/bake off but it is a lot of work of course.

Tim

 

[per-Sony-fied]

See my final comment - but for anyone who preferred the Yamaha, or could not hear a difference, fret not, you had lots of company (and I presume that the great majority of the visitors consider themselves hifi enthusiasts).

Would be interesting to do a more rigorous amplifier blind test/bake off but it is a lot of work of course.

Tim

Well, you can add me to the list of reactions now Im surprised again that my views on the Yamaha are somewhat different and I prefered the Kans you switched over to (on the very brief listen)! I used to hate these speakers, faults were just far to obvious but connected to your system they didn't sound that bad.

BTW: We agree on one thing, the Naim has it and I can put a face to a Naim

 

[onlyconnect]

I am fond of the Kans too. But I find them difficult to go back to now. I do not know if this is because the Kans have changed, or I have changed . However I have reached a point where I am less tolerant of a bass-shy sound. I had a "moment of truth" listening to a small group in a pub which included a double bass. Why should I put up with hi-fi that cannot reproduce this instrument? Hence I am now more disposed towards speakers that are something like full-range. That said, I don't feel that Kans have no bass and after a bit of acclimatization our brains can do a good job of filling in what is missing. But the transition is difficult.

Tim

 

[Robert]

See my final comment - but for anyone who preferred the Yamaha, or could not hear a difference, fret not, you had lots of company (and I presume that the great majority of the visitors consider themselves hifi enthusiasts).

Would be interesting to do a more rigorous amplifier blind test/bake off but it is a lot of work of course.

Tim

I completely missed this. Credit to you for making the effort and for producing a set of findings which will hopefully make people think. If an inexpensive Japanese integrated gets this close, well so much for the hyperbole we often see when describing the sound of amplifiers. What you've achieved should give plenty food for thought. Your findings mirror those from Andrew's event where a Nait 1 was compared to a much bigger Naim. There were a range of views but all found them surprisingly close. The key here is the surprise factor - things don't follow the expected pattern.

As for something more rigorous, yes go for it. Doesn't need to be too arduous a task.
One thing to watch is the hiss level from any amplifier. Canny listeners will often detect the change in hiss especially if sitting close to the 'speaker.

 

[per-Sony-fied]

Your findings mirror those from Andrew's event where a Nait 1 was compared to a much bigger Naim. There were a range of views but all found them surprisingly close. The key here is the surprise factor - things don't follow the expected pattern.

Are you talking the line in stage from these amps? As I distinctly remember comparing my mates 42.5/110 against my Nait 1 and there was no competition.

 

[John]

I completely missed this. Credit to you for making the effort and for producing a set of findings which will hopefully make people think. If an inexpensive Japanese integrated gets this close, well so much for the hyperbole we often see when describing the sound of amplifiers. What you've achieved should give plenty food for thought. Your findings mirror those from Andrew's event where a Nait 1 was compared to a much bigger Naim. There were a range of views but all found them surprisingly close. The key here is the surprise factor - things don't follow the expected pattern.

As for something more rigorous, yes go for it. Doesn't need to be too arduous a task.
One thing to watch is the hiss level from any amplifier. Canny listeners will often detect the change in hiss especially if sitting close to the 'speaker.

Could also be the demonstration standards under which the comparison is conducted. The poorer the setup the worse things will sound and the less meaningful the differences. Proves the point though, for those with an agenda.

 

[narabdela]

Proves the point though, for those with an agenda.

...or doesn't, for those with an alternative agenda.

 

[John]

...or doesn't, for those with an alternative agenda.

But luckily for those who care, there are still competent dealers who can provide a meaningful comparisons with high standards.

 

[Robert]

Could also be the demonstration standards under which the comparison is conducted. The poorer the setup the worse things will sound and the less meaningful the differences. Proves the point though, for those with an agenda.

It could be, but then again I see nary a mention of 'standards' when expensive amplifiers routinely batter cheap ones in hopelessly uncontrolled sighted tests in the dealer demo room.

So I think that's looking for excuses.
if you're going to argue for better standards in blind tests, you need to also start adopting them for the regular ones. You and I both know that won't happen.

 

[beammeup]

Those were AR4xa from 1972/3.

The 781 is a Mission/Cyrus hybrid sold under both names. Smooth and refined - quite warm sounding compared to most Mission designs. Quite early models and in-house Azima designs.
There were three in that range, Cyrus 780, 781 and 782 which is a 781 with two bass drivers in a taller sealed cabinet. All are worth a punt and I still haves some little 780s knocking around somewhere. The two larger models have rubber driver surrounds so should still be working well. 780 has foam and would need some work by now.

A steal for £30, grab them.

Thanks for that - I am hopeful to get them (along with an Arcam Delta 60 for the same price) this coming Weekend.

 

[beammeup]

Great track, thanks for the heads up

It's one of many... this particular one sometimes catches me out thinking that someone is shuffling around upstairs where in fact the sounds are coming from the Spotify track. Amazing sound considering it's sourced from Spotify!

We'll see what Rob thinks of it when he gets the chance.