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Why worse with Hicap?

Robn

Robn

pfm Member
Love the sound of a NAC 32.5/NAP 160 from Meridian 507/Garrard 401 into Tannoy Cheviots and was expecting the hicap I wired into it to improve further.

Has had the opposite effect - bass bloated, more noise, less precision; without it lead vocalists are pinpointed (didn't expect this from Naim) with it everything very diffuse.

It's an old chrome bumper hicap and I guess it is totally tired. I'll be taking it and the even older bolt down 160 to Class A next week for a service. But don't understand why even an old hicap should degrade the sound in this way?

Can enyone enlighten me as to what might be the cause?

Rob
 
If the HICAP is in port condition then the quality of the 24v supply may be worse than that from the 160. The capacitors inside may be in poor condition with age and not doing a very good job of smoothing the power output. Hence worse sound

CJ
 
CJ1045 said:
If the HICAP is in port condition then the quality of the 24v supply may be worse than that from the 160. The capacitors inside may be in poor condition with age and not doing a very good job of smoothing the power output. Hence worse sound

CJ
Click to expand...

thanks, I'd thought the caps in the 160 being older would be in worse condition but maybe they've had an easier life.

graham55 said:
Because it's knackered, and needs the service that you've booked it in for. Take the preamp along too.[/QUOpre-amp

serviced 9 years ago should be good for another 3 years or so and does currently sound excellent powered from the 160


I guess this experience has caused me to have some doubts as to whether the hicap will improve the sound once serviced.
Click to expand...
 
Robn said:
Love the sound of a NAC 32.5/NAP 160 from Meridian 507/Garrard 401 into Tannoy Cheviots and was expecting the hicap I wired into it to improve further.

Has had the opposite effect - bass bloated, more noise, less precision; without it lead vocalists are pinpointed (didn't expect this from Naim) with it everything very diffuse.

It's an old chrome bumper hicap and I guess it is totally tired. I'll be taking it and the even older bolt down 160 to Class A next week for a service. But don't understand why even an old hicap should degrade the sound in this way?

Can enyone enlighten me as to what might be the cause?

Rob
Click to expand...

Hi Robn
a good idea would be to give les at avondale audio a buzz,
he can work wonders with the kit you have .
You will be amazed with the results if the avondale team
fettle your gear.
An asr of leses should be considerd also
well worth a phone call
 
jirka said:
Hi Robn
a good idea would be to give les at avondale audio a buzz,
he can work wonders with the kit you have .
You will be amazed with the results if the avondale team
fettle your gear.
An asr of leses should be considerd also
well worth a phone call
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice jirka. I had been thinking about exploring the Avondale and other options that sound very good.

However I'm almost a Naim virgin - for a while I had a Nait 5i which left me very unimpressed, much preferred the Sugden A21a and MF M3 that have followed it. I also dislike the look of the current NAIM stuff, illuminated logo and the sometimes elitist connotations that their modern direction as a company seems to fan.

In short I had a prejudice, but also a hankering to scratch the itch and find out what it was about NAIM in the first place that generated so much genuine enthusiasm and acclaim?

Like with some of the guitars I now play, I could never afford such kit then, now middle aged I just about can. So my first port of call is to hear it as intended by NAIM, get used to that and then maybe explore some of the subsequent evolutionary paths plotted by people like Les at Avondale.

Rob
 
Well, each to their own, of course. And, as it's your kit, you can do as you wish with it.

But, if you have it worked over by Avondale, it's no longer Naim equipment. (And you'll get less for it, if you decide that it's not for you, and want to sell on.)

You should stick with Class A, if you want to hear what Naim equipment sounds like.
 
Robn said:
So my first port of call is to hear it as intended by NAIM, get used to that and then maybe explore some of the subsequent evolutionary paths plotted by people like Les at Avondale.Rob
Click to expand...

I'd say you're going about things the right way. You need to get a handle on the Naim sound as it's meant to be heard, before upgrading blindly as it were.

I'd agree with others here that the two caps in the Hicap are past there best - tired caps often result in a vague and fluffy bass quality. As Naim gear is left on all the time too the caps get subjected to more heat than might be the case for other designs, so I'd say 10 years is about the limit for a Hicap. The caps are very easy to replace, though I'm sure Les would do it for you (without any mods) and probably at a fraction of the price of a Naim service. Failing that there's a guy who frequents these boards (Darren something - damn my memory!) who does official Naim servicing.

Personally I'd stick with how Naim designed it, and if you don't like the sound then go for a different make.
 
Thanks Valvehead, yes will have the 160 and hicap serviced by Class A to original spec. I like the sound just the 32.5 and 160 make already, I hadn't expected it to sound so good pre service given the age of the unserviced bolt down 160.

Also wondering whether to install MC boards in the 32.5? I understand that this may be detrimental to overall performance but wonder when the hicap has been serviced whether this will be significant. Presently I'm using an AT PEQ20 phono stage which seems to work well with the AT33PTG.
 
Serviced by Darran last weekend (great service) and now starting to come on song.

To say I'm gobsmacked how good this old gear (Garrard 401/Meridian 507/Tannoy Cheviots) can still sound would be an understatement (and that's using some NOS internal 323k 5th iteration boards).

How much better, or perhaps I should say different, does modern day Naim gear sound?
 
I've only heard the lower end modern stuff but if that's the house sound now then it sounds very different. We bought a Nait5i/2 for the kitchen a year or two ago and it sounded pretty bland and boring. So it got replaced by a NAP180 and the 32.5 which was left over from the old CB system, and that was much more like it.
 
Serviced by Darran last weekend (great service) and now starting to come on song.
Click to expand...
32.5 - 160 or with the HiCap ?
Was the HiCap also serviced ?
Happy to see that you still enjoy this great combo !
 
binnie said:
32.5 - 160 or with the HiCap ?
Was the HiCap also serviced ?
Happy to see that you still enjoy this great combo !
Click to expand...

The 160 bolt down and HiCap were serviced, but not the 32.5 which had already been serviced within the last decade.

The sound is still improving, so glad I gave this a try. Perfect for the long winter nights.
 
Hi Robn

Good to see it's working out for you.

The hicap can make quite a difference and some folks just plonk it in without really thinking about whether the balance of their system has changed. I have found on multiple occasions that upgrading to a hicap requires the speakers to be adjusted slightly. So maybe a little more experimentation with that would be worthwhile after it all beds in?

Jay
 
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