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Why headphones rule

Rockmeister

Rockmeister

pfm Member
Bass. Proper bass is so room/ speaker interaction dependent that unless you are very very lucky or employ a sound engineering firm, your never going to know what's on the recording.
Headphones (good phones) know and let you hear it. Better bass from £400 phones than from £10,000 speakers? Yup. Even if the room were optimised, that might still be so.
Caveat. Some cheap phones have bass so awful, my old biscuit box car speakers are better.

Inspired by me listening via my Shure SRH1540's to UB40.
 
What exactly is bass? Electronic bass, acoustics, double basses, cellos or drums?
 
Whatever you do, don't try listening to headphones with your main system subwoofers switched on for a bit of gentle low-end physical re-inforcement as you may find yourself drawn to the dark side and unable to return from it! :cool:
 
Stunsworth said:
I don’t really ‘get’ headphone bass. There needs to be interaction with the room, and listener’s body for it to work properly imho.
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I don't get that. It's a range of notes from a variety of instruments which all have one thing in common, they move a lot of air, so a huge loud bass note could be felt, but if you are at a concert...can you feel the air from the speaker cones??? Nope. Nore does the Albert hall care much about differentiating between 50Hz and 2 Khz.
Especially simce, room interaction is the problem in the first place. You LIKE distortion?
 
Rockmeister said:
I don't get that. It's a range of notes from a variety of instruments which all have one thing in common, they move a lot of air, so a huge loud bass note could be felt, but if you are at a concert...can you feel the air from the speaker cones??? Nope. Nore does the Albert hall care much about differentiating between 50Hz and 2 Khz.
Especially simce, room interaction is the problem in the first place. You LIKE distortion?
Click to expand...

It just doesn't sound 'right' to me. Maybe because for most of my life I've not had sound coming from between my ears - if I'm being honest I put up with headphones rather than enjoy using them.
 
Rockmeister said:
I don't get that. It's a range of notes from a variety of instruments which all have one thing in common, they move a lot of air, so a huge loud bass note could be felt, but if you are at a concert...can you feel the air from the speaker cones??? Nope. Nore does the Albert hall care much about differentiating between 50Hz and 2 Khz.
Especially simce, room interaction is the problem in the first place. You LIKE distortion?
Click to expand...


When I've been to the RAH there were no 'speakers'. Just acoustic instruments. But, yes, I could feel the lower frequencies with my chest, etc, in a way that headphones don't replicate. And for such concerts the sound of the hall acoustic is a part of the musical exprience.

I like headphones for some music and depending on the circumstances. They do give a 'clearer view' in some ways by bypassing the home room acoustic. But in effect they solve some problems at the expense of introducing others. For stereo imaging I prefer ESLs carefully placed in a room. The image is 'out there' not in my head.
 
Crossfeed filters can help with the the 'in the head feeling' of headphones, 'though after years of using them (both eletronic and DSP) I now prefer to use sparingly.

Audeze have their Reveal plugin which does something similar but tuned to individual models. Roon has the plug-in built in and, whilst I have only just started using it, I think it works well at a lowish level.
 
Stunsworth said:
I don’t really ‘get’ headphone bass. There needs to be interaction with the room, and listener’s body for it to work properly imho.
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Yes. While travelling I use Etymotic ER-4P IEMs (maybe not exactly what the OP meant by headphones). With a good ear canal seal you do get surprisingly excellent bass. And they are capable of producing very high sound level at the eardrum and sound very clear indeed. But there's no visceral impact and many IEM manufacturers raise the bass by a few dB in an attempt to compensate.

It's not the same but it's still very good in the appropriate circumstances.
 
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I also often use IEMs with an LG V30 which is surprisingly good as a digital source/ headphone amp.

Even worse for me than the lack of impact is the imaging... It just isn't realistic IMO.

So headphones for me just when a proper stereo setup isn't available.
 
Stunsworth said:
It just doesn't sound 'right' to me. Maybe because for most of my life I've not had sound coming from between my ears - if I'm being honest I put up with headphones rather than enjoy using them.
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no I do get that exactly, it's true with the shures too, very odd soundstage experience. I was commenting specifically on bass presentation...soundwise.
 
I’ve got two pairs of headphones, some nice pro AKG ones and some £400 Grado ones. I very rarely listen to either as my speakers are better in every respect.
 
Arturo said:
Bass is Tony Levin at a Peter Gabriel concert. Bass is felt. Loud.
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Sure, and in a perfect world, best top c is Amellita Galli-Curci on the 'soprano C' in Rigoltta at Milan. The crystal candelabras used to tinkle in sympathy apparently, but that isn't going to happen in your front room either.
 
I agree that headphone bass is good. I love bass and have some closed back Denon 5000 so I can play loud... but I still prefer the bass from my 12” CF woofers! Bass is about moving air.. not just inside your ear canal, but by your trouser legs too :)

I like the idea about using headphones and a sub, but I think with my listening habits with headphones and my usual listening consideration to my neighbours through my speakers, that the sub would be playing louder than it would be if I were playing through the speakers and the neighbours would wonder wtf was going on!
 
Rockmeister said:
Bass. Proper bass is so room/ speaker interaction dependent that unless you are very very lucky or employ a sound engineering firm, your never going to know what's on the recording.
Headphones (good phones) know and let you hear it. Better bass from £400 phones than from £10,000 speakers? Yup. Even if the room were optimised, that might still be so.
Caveat. Some cheap phones have bass so awful, my old biscuit box car speakers are better.

Inspired by me listening via my Shure SRH1540's to UB40.
Click to expand...

I like headphones and have some pretty decent ones, Sennheiser HD-600s being the best of them. I find them a very useful tool, and love being able to play music on public transport etc (I have Sennheiser Momentums for that), but there is always a detachment caused by such an unnatural ‘in-head’ presentation that removes any illusions of real music for me. They also don’t do ‘scale’, and that is very important to me. I find that more important than simple bass extension. As an example I’m currently listening to a jazz piano trio (Being There by Tord Gustavsen) via my Lockwood Tannoys, not hugely loud (below 80db average), but the three instruments sound life-sized and in the room. If I close my eyes I could almost be in the studio with them. I never get that from headphones.
 
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Well, I dunno what does it with mine, but I can immediately get carried away listening on (650) cans. Never used to, but whereas bass, scale, realism etc. can all be comparative arguments compared to speakers, that old saw of 'comparisons are odious' might be apposite. If listening through a cardboard box trips my musical wire, then so be it. Two aspects which I can pick out when listening through cans rather than speakers is clarity and immediacy; rather important at my age. Not that I don't get that from my 2905s but the latter is dominant in the cans.

On the one hand, my head is full of music, or the other, the room is full of music. Different aspects, I feel.
 
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