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Who's heard the Kii Three speakers?

Discussion in 'audio' started by Bluedroog, Nov 23, 2016.

  1. AndyU

    AndyU pfm Member

  2. muzzer

    muzzer Numb Nut

  3. DNM

    DNM pfm Member

    Air Studios. Looks like it was shot during the recording of one of Mike Valentines 'Direct Cut to Vinyl' releases with the Syd Lawrence Orchestra. Chris Dean who can just be made out at the back, is the band leader and friend of my fathers. They played at his 80th a few years ago and were superb. They did the Valentine albums in one take, small pause between tracks, and never made one mistake according to MV. Great sounding LP's.

    We've been over this. You seem to be making assumptions about something you've never used nor will ever likely try given your pre-conceptions. Using digital EQ to boost bass will do exactly as you say. Removing energy from room modes however can work very well over both a narrow and wide area IME, and I use it to great effect, near field and whole room.

    DRC can also be a great tool and with Dirac, for example, you can measure over as wide an area as you like. It allows for up to 9 measurements over three listening scenarios (Chair, Sofa, Auditorium). I use 'Sofa' and it works superbly the full width of the sofa, not only in achieving silky smooth bass, but also correcting impulse response. You don't realise you have a problem with impulse response until you turn the Dirac filter on. Once you've heard kick drums sound like kick drums, drum brushing sound like you're there and voices jump forward centre stage and come alive, there's no going back. One button on my remote, and I've turned the filter off. You can get it horribly wrong of course if your measurements are out or you try to overdrive your speakers; get it right and its a very big upgrade in a non treated domestic room IMHO.

    If the Kii's can do all of this using active wave focusing and whatever other trickery they employ and they actually sound decent, then fantastic. Thats technological progress, which inevitably not everyone will embrace.
  4. yuckyamson

    yuckyamson pfm Member

  5. Werner

    Werner pfm Member

    Come on.

    Studios use at least three different classes of monitors:

    1) performance monitors: big, LOUD, robust, wide, accurate, did I mention LOUD? These are used at high levels when musicians are tracking in the control room. To give a sense of, well, performance. They are a substitute for live, uncompressed instruments.

    2) mix monitors: small, not necessarily accurate (NS10!), used in the nearfield to allow the mix engineer to do their work with a minimum of room influence (ignoring the massive bounce off the desk)

    3) mastering monitors: medium-to-large, very accurate, not very loud. This is what the likes of Grimm and Kii aim at.

    Unless you find yourself in a mastering room you have no reason to find Kiis.
  6. AndyU

    AndyU pfm Member

    How do you mix or produce on speakers with 1/10 sec latency?
  7. Purité Audio

    Purité Audio Trade: Purite Audio

    Low latency mode is 1.03 ms, proof of the pudding is in the eating, we have many very highly regarded loudspeakers here which anyone can compare directly to the Kii THREE.
    Kii THREE and ATC;s active 50's.

  8. per flemming

    per flemming Registered User

    Hard pressed I choose those in the middle
  9. Purité Audio

    Purité Audio Trade: Purite Audio

    The ATCs are fine speakers,
    Drivers: HF 25mm Mid 75mm LF 234mm Super Linear
    Amplitude Linearity ±2dB: 70Hz – 17kHz
    Frequency Response -6dB: 38Hz & 22kHz
    Matched Response: ±0.5dB
    Dispersion: ±80° Coherent Horizontal ±10° Coherent Vertical
    Max continuous SPL @1m: 112dB SPL
    Crossover Frequency: 380Hz & 3.5kHz
    Input Connector: XLR
    Input Sensitivity:1V
    Input Impedance: >10k ohms balanced XLR
    Amplifier Output: HF 50 Watts RMS MF 100 Watts RMS LF 200 Watts RMS
    Overload Protection: LDR tweeter protection, plus active FET MGR (amplifiers)
    Power Requirements: Voltage: 100, 115, 230 (factory set)
    Frequency: 50/60Hz
    Power: Nominal 90 Watts, Driven 350 Watts
    Cabinet Dimensions(HxWxD): 717 x 304 x 480mm including amps (stands add 250mm to height)
    Weight: 48.9kg

  10. Alexh

    Alexh pfm Member

    ATC set their speakers up including phase at the factory
  11. S-Man

    S-Man Kinkless Tetrode Admirer

    IME there is very little content on CDs below about 35Hz, so this just doesn't happen in practice. Film soundtracks do have some serious low freqeuncy stuff going on!
  12. AndyU

    AndyU pfm Member

    Lowest string on a double bass is around 40Hz, bottom note on a concert grand is around 28Hz. These would be a good start. 28Hz to 20kHz +/- 0.5dB at 100dB plots in room please.

    The Kii guy Keith quoted is talking crap by the way. Linn for one are using DSP to make speakers with correct phase all the way, and offer this correction for many non-Linn speakers. Checkout Linn Exakt. And their SPACE correction offers some correction for room modes.
  13. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    Intetesting. The big Geithains are a speaker I'd love to spend some time with, I have a feeling I'd love them. I really liked my old RL904 aside from my room didn't like their bass port tuning at all and I'm just not prepared to stick a load of complex digital stuff in the signal path! ;-)
  14. Purité Audio

    Purité Audio Trade: Purite Audio

  15. AndyU

    AndyU pfm Member

    Here is a technical description of Linn's Exakt technology for correcting phase and magnitude distortion in their and other loudspeakers. You should point this out to Kii so that they stop making false claims that they alone use DSP to correct phase anomalies in loudspeakers. I have no Linn equipment, and am not a particular fan of theirs. Their SPACE stuff, aiui, deliberately only corrects for the calculated modes in a room based on room dimensions, it does not by design use acoustic measurement. Linn are not fans of using measuring microphones to "correct" a room, nor is Bruno Putzey I believe. (see Page 9 here).

    This is yet another paradox; Keith, the great advocate of DSP based room "correction" is making a big noise about a pair of speakers designed by a guy who thinks room correction is not much use!

    Got those measurements to hand Keith? Can we see them?
  16. muzzer

    muzzer Numb Nut

    Don't hold your breath we're still waiting for the list of studios that use them.:D
  17. Purité Audio

    Purité Audio Trade: Purite Audio

    In a room with severe standing wave resonance ,judicious use of electronic room correction can really help,indeed it is the only effective method of treating issues with low bass.
    Which measurements would you like I can ask Chris at Kii?
    You use ATCs don't you which model do you have?
    Re measurement ,I asked Thomas at Kii about Audio's measurements .
    Hi Keith,

    Please tell your customers that these figures are not real.

    The measurements/test was done with a prototype, the firmware didn´t have the limiters and the full phase correction in the bass at that time.

    They didn´t check their stimulus signal, which was most likely way too loud and caused the drivers to hit their excursion maximum.
    Apparently they didn't notice this from the driver distortion...
    A full 360 degree measurement suite is in progress however.
  18. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    The RL904s had what I'd describe as a neutral/BBC/classical balance which suits me down to the ground. I really dislike over-bright, forward or hyped presentation, which a fair few monitors are in order to highlight issues. In fact I find a lot of modern hi-fi way too bright and thin sounding. The MEGs struck me as a proper old-school speaker, though the RL904 tried to do the impossible bass-wise with it's little 6.5" driver, amazing extension for a comparatively small unit, but some port shenanigans were occurring to achieve it for sure.
  19. Julf

    Julf Facts are our friends

    Latency doesn't matter when mastering. Where does your 1/10 s come from? What buffer length do you think is needed for proper DSP?
  20. AndyU

    AndyU pfm Member

    1/10s latency (well actually "approx 90ms" but so what) comes from page 19 of the technical manual which you can download here. Latency matters extremely when you are recording - it is hard to add a track when what you are listening to happened 90ms ago. Kii recognise this and offer a low latency mode which sacrifices some of the DSP stuff. If you think that latency doesn't matter to pro users check out the thread on gearslutz I linked to earlier for comments from many pro users for which this is a deal breaker. For domestic playback latency is of little importance unless you want to use them for AV.

    The same page makes the claim of a 20Hz to 25kHz +/- 0.5dB frequency response, with a long term spl of 105dB. I am asking Keith, who claims he has measured these speakers in his room, and that they are the best speakers he has measured, to show us his measurements. 20Hz at 105dB? That'll be right.

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