Fretbuzz
pfm Member
Maybe a stupid understanding/question, but...
As the speaker output is based on room interactions, will you have to do that, optimally, when it's full of people and not empty (ie the day before or whatever)? Make much difference?
Who's Heard the Dutch & Dutch Speakers
- Thread starter zekezebra
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As the speaker output is based on room interactions, will you have to do that, optimally, when it's full of people and not empty (ie the day before or whatever)? Make much difference?
Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
Rooms usually sound better full of people, they make good absorbers/diffusers, low bass won’t be affected so you might still need to reduce any room mode derived
Peaks.
Contemporary auditoriums have absorptive material on the undersides of the seats which replicates the effect of having a customer sitting there.
Keith
Peaks.
Contemporary auditoriums have absorptive material on the undersides of the seats which replicates the effect of having a customer sitting there.
Keith
Strictly Stereo
Trade: Strictly Stereo
I will only be correcting the lowest frequencies. A few people more or less won’t make an appreciable difference.
Thank you for your optimism. Let’s hope that the room really is full of people.
Fretbuzz
pfm Member
Fretbuzz
pfm Member
Didn't know that re seat undersides, cool.
Strictly Stereo
Trade: Strictly Stereo
They're 2 metres long.
So, I have been waiting for Darko's review of these since he's had them for AGES.
Review finally up and explains what took so long:
https://darko.audio/2019/05/unfinished-business-with-the-dutch-dutch-8c/
Intriguing. He obviously loves the 8c but has had to endure a whole series of hurdles to get them to work in his room and is still suffering apparently. He ends the review on a rather sour note:
"A pity to pause/end my commentary on such a fantastic loudspeaker on such a bum note but if past delays are anything to go by, a review might not surface for (yet more) months. Time already invested in this assignment and my ever-expanding review queue both said now or never."
Have owners here found them reliable?
Review finally up and explains what took so long:
https://darko.audio/2019/05/unfinished-business-with-the-dutch-dutch-8c/
Intriguing. He obviously loves the 8c but has had to endure a whole series of hurdles to get them to work in his room and is still suffering apparently. He ends the review on a rather sour note:
"A pity to pause/end my commentary on such a fantastic loudspeaker on such a bum note but if past delays are anything to go by, a review might not surface for (yet more) months. Time already invested in this assignment and my ever-expanding review queue both said now or never."
Have owners here found them reliable?
Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
I believe he is referring to the 8Cs Roon compatibility, I haven’t experienced any issues with the speakers themselves.
Keith
Keith
Strictly Stereo
Trade: Strictly Stereo
I wondered what was holding this up. Thanks for the link.
Knipester
pfm Member
Ive had mine 3months and they haven’t skipped a beat. Obviously the roon integration isn’t released yet so those duties come from my auralic Aries which also gives me a remote control.
I couldn’t be happier with mine. Unlike normal speakers what are developed tested then sold, the 8c’s are still developing even though they are being sold....Which is both exciting but rather risky for them. It’s a shame that they couldn’t get a fully working set to the reviewer as if people discount them on this review alone they are missing out on an amazing speaker.
Lee at strictly stereo did a Stella job of setting mine up for both demo and the final install and I haven’t encountered any problems.
Read the review - multiple hardware issues, e.g. one speaker playing louder than the other.
david ellwood
Kirabosi Kognoscente
I can honestly say I have never heard a more BS statement than that.
Andrew C!
Been around a while....
Further regarding the review - Darko seems very fair. The Roon integration is a work in progress, but once sorted would make a very simple and effective system for some. His comparison with the Kii are also interesting, but that speaker isn’t for me in terms of looks.
I’m also as interested in what kind of breakout box D&D eventually come up with, but I’m not interested in waiting ages for that product to be released.
It’s a very fair question to ask how one would specifically integrate these speakers into their needs. My needs re this are clearly described previously, but Roon end point use will be an interesting addition when sorted and in due course.
I’m also as interested in what kind of breakout box D&D eventually come up with, but I’m not interested in waiting ages for that product to be released.
It’s a very fair question to ask how one would specifically integrate these speakers into their needs. My needs re this are clearly described previously, but Roon end point use will be an interesting addition when sorted and in due course.
He liked the speakers a lot, other than the Roon integration, which is still a work in progress, apparently. It took 3 tries till he got a pair that worked properly (apparently one of the first two pairs was damaged in transit).
As far as sound, he said that the 8c's had a little bigger bass than the Kii Threes and a more "fleshy" sound, but that the Kiis displayed a bit better detail/"cleanliness", high end extension, and soundstage-intstrument placement. That seems to be a fairly common result of comparisons.
Darko slightly preferred the 8c's. YMMV.
As far as sound, he said that the 8c's had a little bigger bass than the Kii Threes and a more "fleshy" sound, but that the Kiis displayed a bit better detail/"cleanliness", high end extension, and soundstage-intstrument placement. That seems to be a fairly common result of comparisons.
Darko slightly preferred the 8c's. YMMV.
Nikola Krivorov
pfm Member
A pair here has worked flawlessly for months, not a glitch. Stage is enormous and as good or better than a bunch of top level speakers in systems developed for years - Dynaudio Evidence Tempetation, PMC, ME Geithain... It does require some work to set it up properly, not just throw it in the room and it kills the birds around, proper setup is as important as any other system, this is not for beginners. But it does create the most impressive sound in years.
I have been building speakers for many years in all kinds of configurations, the 8C has two decent advantages - the waveguide is magnificent and the two 8 inchers on the back are something that makes the work of the designer a bit easier than on the Kii three as physics are on the side of the 8c. I have a pair of Suesskind Progress speakers that are small, thin and have two 5.5inch side firing woofers. When setup properly they give very little to the Harbeth 40.2 Anniversary in the bass department,the stage and scale of sound, subjectively they go as low and sometimes are faster and more articulate down low, the bass driver in the 40.2 feels just a little slow. But there are occasions that the 40.2 simply win on bass impact because the size of that bass driver IS bigger, check Mantra by Dave Grohl. It feels the same way with the 8C, sometimes the illusion of low bass is good but a small pair of woofers is a small pair and a big pair is a big pair and DSP is not enough even though measurements might be identical.
I feel sad for Martjin, he has a great design but he is struggling with manufacturing and software, he knows he is almost there but the market is merciless, I hope he survives those struggles. Reading the review it feels that John Darko likes very much what he hears, he is brutally honest and that is why I like him a lot but is frustrated with the problems, otherwise he would just write a few words that he is disappointed and end of game. He tries to give them a chance IMHO.
I have been building speakers for many years in all kinds of configurations, the 8C has two decent advantages - the waveguide is magnificent and the two 8 inchers on the back are something that makes the work of the designer a bit easier than on the Kii three as physics are on the side of the 8c. I have a pair of Suesskind Progress speakers that are small, thin and have two 5.5inch side firing woofers. When setup properly they give very little to the Harbeth 40.2 Anniversary in the bass department,the stage and scale of sound, subjectively they go as low and sometimes are faster and more articulate down low, the bass driver in the 40.2 feels just a little slow. But there are occasions that the 40.2 simply win on bass impact because the size of that bass driver IS bigger, check Mantra by Dave Grohl. It feels the same way with the 8C, sometimes the illusion of low bass is good but a small pair of woofers is a small pair and a big pair is a big pair and DSP is not enough even though measurements might be identical.
I feel sad for Martjin, he has a great design but he is struggling with manufacturing and software, he knows he is almost there but the market is merciless, I hope he survives those struggles. Reading the review it feels that John Darko likes very much what he hears, he is brutally honest and that is why I like him a lot but is frustrated with the problems, otherwise he would just write a few words that he is disappointed and end of game. He tries to give them a chance IMHO.
Knipester
pfm Member
I’d suggest anyone thinking the 8c’s might be for them I’d recommend just organising a demo and let YOUR ears decide for themselves. Reviews are great but hearing them yourself is a much better way of making an informed decision. The extra functionality will no doubt arrive when the creases are ironed out but tbh I’m happy without it.
Lee didn’t pressure me to buy my 8c’s even though it’s a huge undertaking on his part to provide a demo as they aren’t exactly plug and play. What’s there to loose?
Lee didn’t pressure me to buy my 8c’s even though it’s a huge undertaking on his part to provide a demo as they aren’t exactly plug and play. What’s there to loose?
Nikola Krivorov
pfm Member
People like to assume 
I wouldn't believe any description in a magazine, they have worn out the words long time ago. But Keith from Purite audio said these are great and he has had most of the fancy stuff through his room, I can only imagine how many things he did NOT choose to represent. When Keith likes something a lot I take notice You would say he is a dealer and so but man, I know when someone is crazy about good sound and just happens to make a living on it, he is indeed a searcher and I am sure he is on the side of the music lovers and not a hunter for naive nouveau riche. I have never met him, I am not affiliated in any way other than a happy customer who has always got good prices and good advice, one of the few people I trust.
I wouldn't believe any description in a magazine, they have worn out the words long time ago. But Keith from Purite audio said these are great and he has had most of the fancy stuff through his room, I can only imagine how many things he did NOT choose to represent. When Keith likes something a lot I take notice You would say he is a dealer and so but man, I know when someone is crazy about good sound and just happens to make a living on it, he is indeed a searcher and I am sure he is on the side of the music lovers and not a hunter for naive nouveau riche. I have never met him, I am not affiliated in any way other than a happy customer who has always got good prices and good advice, one of the few people I trust.
Andrew C!
Been around a while....
Well, mine are installed. Mains cables to both speakers lightly too short, so have ordered some longer ones(Mark Grant Cables).
Again very interesting watching Lee work with the DSP software, and the results were very enlightening. Big thanks to him for a very comprehensive install.
I/we thought the Roon back-up software hadn't done its job when tranferring stuff from the lian Zenith to the new one. However by the time Lee had left, it indeed had done so, and my library was as it was on the loan Zenith.
Sadly no time to listen to them today until later this afternoon...
Once I get the cables tidied to my satisfaction, I'll post some photos.
Again very interesting watching Lee work with the DSP software, and the results were very enlightening. Big thanks to him for a very comprehensive install.
I/we thought the Roon back-up software hadn't done its job when tranferring stuff from the lian Zenith to the new one. However by the time Lee had left, it indeed had done so, and my library was as it was on the loan Zenith.
Sadly no time to listen to them today until later this afternoon...
Once I get the cables tidied to my satisfaction, I'll post some photos.
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