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Who's Heard the Dutch & Dutch Speakers

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I'm interested in taking a look. Can you email the rew file? Sent pm

Looking at just the frequency response there are modes at 30, 60 90hz. Plus that cancellation at about 40. With modes I'm less interested in the amplitude of the peak and more in the decay time so we need to look at a waterfall.

PM/email sent with the files.

Please post your thoughts and waterfalls. I'm pretty much a novice on REW!

Maybe to keep this thread on topic, it's worth replying in a thread I started (sadly Postimage has done something unhelpful to the pics :():
https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/speaker-room-measurement-witchcraftery.214271/
 
D&D have just announced on fb that roon readiness is ready...

Get ready, because Roon is! Roon is the first audio service to be fully compatible with the 8c. More will follow!

#Roon #audioservice #accurate #DutchDutch #hifi

https://www.facebook.com/272106662970633/posts/1099079213606703/

It’s not as easy as it looks, because both speakers are connected independently to Ethernet so keeping them in sync isn’t straightforward but I think they claim somewhere to achieve sync to better than one sample.

Will be interesting to know whether they pass roons volume through.

Add this to the fact that roon are now integrated with Qobuz and you have a very sensible system that properly exploits the ethernet connectivity of the 8cs
 
Just spoken to Martijn and the Facebook message was posted in error, almost,almost ready for release but not quite.

Keith
 
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Just spoken to Martijn and the Facebook message was posted in error, almost,almost ready for release but not quite.

Keith

Ah well, it has been imminent for awhile. Getting perfect sync can’t be easy since the speakers aren’t linked. The HiFi Plus review said “the first track played revealed a strange phasiness between channels with the image wandering around in a disorientating fashion. I later had Dutch & Dutch investigate this and found a bug in the system that should be corrected by the time this goes to press.” with roon, which sounds like a channel sync problem maybe.
 
I would be very interested to know how they achieve synchronisation between two speakers via ethernet only. I can't immediately think of any mechanism whereby you could make it work totally reliably to the precision required.
 
I would be very interested to know how they achieve synchronisation between two speakers via ethernet only. I can't immediately think of any mechanism whereby you could make it work totally reliably to the precision required.

roon only claim sync within 1ms for their multiroom facility, though they say it can be often a lot better in practice. But sound travels a bit more than a foot in 1ms, so that wouldn’t be good enough for a stereo pair. I too wonder how they do it.
 
Pretty sure I remember reading somewhere Martyn saying the RoonReady delay surrounded this issue, and they (Dutch) came up with something as a Roons architecture didn’t provide the necessary. Equally maybe Roon took the time to work on it too for future partners that might need the sane thing. Hopefully all is revealed when it launches as I’m really curious too, I fully expected the AES link would be needed and one speaker would be the Roon “master’.

Either way it’s a bit silly - after all this time - to post it’s ready on social media (instagram too) if its not. Question is, is it actually certified with Roon now but they need to tidy up and release firmware, or is it not yet certified? If the latter the announcement would be even weirder.

I’m sure they’re both keen to get it out after all this time. I read the first announcement a long time ago. I bet a few people are watching this space in terms of purchasing decisions. Well, I am anyway......
 
I’m sure they’re both keen to get it out after all this time. I read the first announcement a long time ago. I bet a few people are watching this space in terms of purchasing decisions. Well, I am anyway......

I am. Room integration isn’t a deal breaker for me. Still using too many sources.
I would like to know what their breakout box will consist of, tho?
 
Thanks. That's a whole set of standards I didn't know about. Plenty for audiophiles to argue about there... I guess the key point is it's incompatible with non-AVB ethernet equipment, and all the AVB stuff has to be directly connected. It also looks pretty complicated, with plenty of scope for bugs.

Directly connected?
 

From the little I’ve just read (and I’m no expert but technically savvy), what stood out was the fact that with AVB one of the devices in sync (the one with the ‘best’ clock) would be chosen as ‘master clock’ and the other skewed to keep time. This seems a bit counter-intuitive with everything you read these days about precision clocks, jitter, etc.
But I guess it’s the implementation that counts. I wonder if there will be any technical announcement like a white paper?

.. I guess the key point is it's incompatible with non-AVB ethernet equipment, and all the AVB stuff has to be directly connected. It also looks pretty complicated, with plenty of scope for bugs.

I must have read this differently, I thought the aim was it could run over a standard network/switch environment?

As for scope for bugs, I guess it will be apparent soon enough! Anyone have an idea how many pairs of 8c’s have been sold now?
 
I must have read this differently, I thought the aim was it could run over a standard network/switch environment?
Look at the picture in the section marked "Summary of Audio Video Bridging". It makes it pretty clear that AVB only works within the AVB (blue) domain. So if you bung your Ebay special £10 gigabit switch (or actually pretty much any standard office-type equipment) in the way, it isn't going to work.

So I assume in the D&D case, the speakers need to be directly linked to each other, or directly linked to some special D&D box
 
Look at the picture in the section marked "Summary of Audio Video Bridging". It makes it pretty clear that AVB only works within the AVB (blue) domain. So if you bung your Ebay special £10 gigabit switch (or actually pretty much any standard office-type equipment) in the way, it isn't going to work.

So I assume in the D&D case, the speakers need to be directly linked to each other, or directly linked to some special D&D box

I think that your interpretation of the diagram is correct. I am quite certain that you will not be attaching the speakers directly to each other via Ethernet. That would break Roon connectivity. Some sort of network switch will be required to connect the speakers to each other and also to the Roon server. AVB is actually a collection of protocols. I am not sure whether Dutch & Dutch is using some or all of these. They have not mentioned any special hardware requirements, but I will endeavour to find out.

Another possibility is that my information, which is actually a little over a year old now, is out of date. Possibly they decided to go in a different direction, using either another off the shelf option or something proprietary. I have asked for clarification on this point.
 
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Well the D&D 8c’s went home today, Martijn just picked them up. Am very sorry to see them go as they were by far the best speakers I have had the pleasure of using at home.

I found I was spending far more time just listening to music, picking out old favorites from the past and hearing them in a whole new way!

I do share other folks concerns regarding “all eggs in one basket” as far as all the components go (speakers, amplifiers and DAC’s etc.) but feel sound wise, for me, this is as good as I would ever want it to be.

I also have some concern about a small startup company disappearing regarding any future repairs that may be required especially power supplies which these days are replaced rather than repaired.

Having said that I have ordered a pair which hopefully will be available in April!!

Paul - Rotterdam
 
Well the D&D 8c’s went home today, Martijn just picked them up. Am very sorry to see them go as they were by far the best speakers I have had the pleasure of using at home.

I found I was spending far more time just listening to music, picking out old favorites from the past and hearing them in a whole new way!

I do share other folks concerns regarding “all eggs in one basket” as far as all the components go (speakers, amplifiers and DAC’s etc.) but feel sound wise, for me, this is as good as I would ever want it to be.

I also have some concern about a small startup company disappearing regarding any future repairs that may be required especially power supplies which these days are replaced rather than repaired.

Having said that I have ordered a pair which hopefully will be available in April!!

Paul - Rotterdam
Fantastic, hope you have many happy hours of listening.
 
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