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Which phono stage with P8/Apheta 2?

Rosewind said:
Have Glenn Croft upgrade your Riaa to Riaa R and try a well-known SUT such as a Puresound or a Rothwell Headspace. If you like the sound you can upgrade to RS spec later, sell off the Puresound / Headspace and buy an EAR MC3/MC4 or a better headamp.
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Elephantears said:
RIAA R + Hashimoto HM3 may be the best phono stage I've had; I would put that up against the Longdog and expect it to have even greater richness, but not be as tight and clear (pure guesswork though, and very context determined). I only moved it on because the loading was a bit low for my Miyajima, so it was a little rolled off for my taste.
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lordmortlock said:
There’s an aria here Greg.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/183882691893

That carver SUT that Matts just listed could be worth a look too.
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Lots of options here. Thanks for the advice everyone!

Interesting about the Croft/SUT ideas. I’ve thought about a Music First Audio SUT. They do one for a few hundred quid. Sometimes I wonder about changing to a Croft R pre/power (which I’ve heard with P3ESR) and using a SUT, but I have my Leben and I’m probably best to keep it. Had it nearly 5 years now.

So far, I’ve shortlisted:

Rega Aria and Fono MC
Croft RIAA with SUT
VIDA Prima (the new £995 one)
Exposure 3010S2 and XM3
 
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Presumably you are working with a £1K limit here? Otherwise I'm puzzled that the Longdog isn't shortlisted.

Also worth throwing a hidden gem from the past; both Jake and I have tried the Kinshaw Perception and liked it (in fact I think I have the one he had originally). I have one as a back up, although I'm never likely to use it with the Miyajima.
 
Any Icon Audio PS3 users on here? It seems to have rave reviews but I don’t hear it mentioned much on pinkfish

Without diverting the thread too much - I have a Trichord Diablo + phono stage but how much of an upgrade would an Icon PS3 (or others be)?
 
lordmortlock said:
Is the Rega replacing the Garrard Greg?
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Yes Jake. Nothing wrong with the Garrard though, Audio Grail’s work is incredible and I’d recommend Matthew to anyone looking to get the best 301 possible. It was the arm I had problems with. Missing parts etc. Also the plinth wasn’t drilled with threaded inserts for the arm base or feet and Russ Collinson didn’t return my emails. I just got disillusioned with it all and got rid at a serious loss. I think stress at work pushed me over the edge with it TBH :/ The Rega seems much more plug ‘n play, which suits me.

Elephantears said:
Presumably you are working with a £1K limit here? Otherwise I'm puzzled that the Longdog isn't shortlisted.

Also worth throwing a hidden gem from the past; both Jake and I have tried the Kinshaw Perception and liked it (in fact I think I have the one he had originally). I have one as a back up, although I'm never likely to use it with the Miyajima.
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Well Andrew, I’d wanted to avoid going over £1k (in theory) as if I’m looking over £1k I might as well have got my old VIDA back from Jake and I’d really like to reign in the expenditure a bit. I’m trying to keep things in perspective with regards the balance of my system, so I think an upper limit of £1k is probably about right.
 
Completely understand that Greg ... you’re talking to the guy currently listening to a Technics sl-7, doesn’t get much more plug and play than that! I just want to switch on and press play at the moment.

Great shout from Andrew re the Kinshaw btw. It’s a fantastic stage, and one that Conrad mass used to showcase his top end avid decks for many years until developing his own line.
 
Nagraboy said:
Yes Jake. Nothing wrong with the Garrard though, Audio Grail’s work is incredible and I’d recommend Matthew to anyone looking to get the best 301 possible. It was the arm I had problems with. Missing parts etc. Also the plinth wasn’t drilled with threaded inserts for the arm base or feet and Russ Collinson didn’t return my emails. I just got disillusioned with it all and got rid at a serious loss. I think stress at work pushed me over the edge with it TBH :/ The Rega seems much more plug ‘n play, which suits me.



Well Andrew, I’d wanted to avoid going over £1k (in theory) as if I’m looking over £1k I might as well have got my old VIDA back from Jake and I’d really like to reign in the expenditure a bit. I’m trying to keep things in perspective with regards the balance of my system, so I think an upper limit of £1k is probably about right.
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Seriously, I'd add yourself to the RSL loaner list, I would take it over any of those you've listed previously, aside from the Vida which I haven't heard.
 
matt j said:
Seriously, I'd add yourself to the RSL loaner list, I would take it over any of those you've listed previously, aside from the Vida which I haven't heard.
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I did have a look at it, but was a bit concerned that it won the approval of a raving Naim-ite lol. Made me question whether it would go well with my valves/Harbeth combo downstream?
 
Nagraboy said:
I did have a look at it, but was a bit concerned that it won the approval of a raving Naim-ite lol. Made me question whether it would go well with my valves/Harbeth combo downstream?
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I have a similar set up to you in some respects, I'm not a 'flat earther' in any respect and I wouldn't concern myself that it has won praise from some Naim acolytes.

Like I mentioned, it's the best phono stage I've heard from a air, soundstage/space, timbre point of view. When the loaner has gone I will be buying one.

You've nothing to lose from having it on loan, it's very flexible with loads of set up options but it shines with MC carts, it's a bit like a P75 in Dr T mode on steroids.

Edit: Given your amp and speakers I'm surprised you've ended up with a Rega TT/cart combo, but I guess it's a good choice as you say for plug and play simplicity.
 
matt j said:
I have a similar set up to you in some respects, I'm not a 'flat earther' in any respect and I wouldn't concern myself that it has won praise from some Naim acolytes.

Like I mentioned, it's the best phono stage I've heard from a air, soundstage/space, timbre point of view. When the loaner has gone I will be buying one.

You've nothing to lose from having it on loan, it's very flexible with loads of set up options but it shines with MC carts, it's a bit like a P75 in Dr T mode on steroids.

Edit: Given your amp and speakers I'm surprised you've ended up with a Rega TT/cart combo, but I guess it's a good choice as you say for plug and play simplicity.
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Well, it seems like it’s worth trying the loaner unit then. In the meantime, I’ll try to get something cheap secondhand. The Fono MC seems to pop up with some regularity.

About the Rega TT/combo - I took my Harbeths to the dealer to hear Rega P6/Ania vs. Rega P8/Apheta 2. The amps were Naim Stageline (iirc) and XS2. I liked both Rega combos and could’ve happily gone home with the P6, but the P8 really wowed me. I deliberated a long time before choosing the P8 combo. Whether I played Miles/Nefertiti on 45rpm Mo-Fi; Com Truise Electronic, Renaissance/Baroque lute from Jacob Lindberg or grumpy Mark Kozelek, the P8/Apheta 2 just pumped out so much music. It was intense, but not tense. Density comes to mind. It wasn’t showering me with detail for the sake of it, it seemed there was so much going on - richness in a way - but all in service of communicating the music to me. I came away thinking it was all I could ever want from vinyl playback equipment.

The Leben is not a syrupy cliched valve thing - although it looks like it might be! - it’s actually quite spirited and spritely, so I don’t have matching concerns re Rega/Leben. But I do think the choice of phono stage might be critical in getting the balance just right here. I’m going to take my time.
 
The RSL was recommended to me but I've gone for a P75.

Can't see any UK pricing for it though so interested in what it costs over here.
 
Greg, that sounds like a bitter pill with all your 301 issues.

By the way, if you want to try a SUT into the Croft, I'm going away for a few weeks and could loan you a Bob's Devices Cinemag 3440 based device. It's a neat little thing, so easy to post. It might work well with the Croft. My only caveat is that it would load at 148 Ohms into a 47KOhm stage, which is rather high for the recommended 100 Ohms. I don't know if the Apheta is one of those carts that will sound horribly bright when loaded even slightly too high, or one of those that isn't bothered. These things are also rather system dependent, in ways which I can't begin to fathom (e.g. I could never use an AT cart loaded even slightly higher than 100 Ohms, but a friend of mine loads one at 1KOhm and it sounds fantastic, and it's not an issue caused by the phono stage).
 
Elephantears said:
Greg, that sounds like a bitter pill with all your 301 issues.

By the way, if you want to try a SUT into the Croft, I'm going away for a few weeks and could loan you a Bob's Devices Cinemag 3440 based device. It's a neat little thing, so easy to post. It might work well with the Croft. My only caveat is that it would load at 148 Ohms into a 47KOhm stage, which is rather high for the recommended 100 Ohms. I don't know if the Apheta is one of those carts that will sound horribly bright when loaded even slightly too high, or one of those that isn't bothered. These things are also rather system dependent, in ways which I can't begin to fathom (e.g. I could never use an AT cart loaded even slightly higher than 100 Ohms, but a friend of mine loads one at 1KOhm and it sounds fantastic, and it's not an issue caused by the phono stage).
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Thanks Andrew, that’s very kind of you. PM sent.

I’ve heard of people using less than 100 Ohms with the Apheta, so who knows? I’ll just have to see what happens.
 
Nagraboy said:
Lots of options here. Thanks for the advice everyone!

Interesting about the Croft/SUT ideas. I’ve thought about a Music First Audio SUT. They do one for a few hundred quid. Sometimes I wonder about changing to a Croft R pre/power (which I’ve heard with P3ESR) and using a SUT, but I have my Leben and I’m probably best to keep it. Had it nearly 5 years now.

So far, I’ve shortlisted:

Rega Aria and Fono MC
Croft RIAA with SUT
VIDA Prima (the new £995 one)
Exposure 3010S2 and XM3
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I’m currently comparing the Aria with the mm card in the Exposure 3010s2d integrated, which I understand (though only from a few posts on here) sounds quite a lot like the separate phono unit. I don’t know how helpful it would be for me to comment on the relative quality (although both are excellent IMO) but they have very different characteristics, to my ears, with the Exposure sounding leaner, dryer and more dynamic than the Rega. Since Rega decks are already a bit that way inclined I think I’d want to audition the Exposure before committing to it, with your setup.
 
Nagraboy said:
Maybe, but seems a bit of a waste having two phono stages in one case when I’ll only be using one.

I find Rega’s phono stage - and integrated amp - range quite strange compared with their turntable and cartridge range. If you have one of their amps, but choose an Ania or Apheta, you have to go for the Aria with it’s uneccesary second MM stage, or the price-inappropriate Aura. Very odd. They need a good MC-only stage for around £1000 really.

I might just go for the Fono MC as a short to medium term option.
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They did the original IOS for £1500 but ended production. Then the IOS reference followed it but that was a £4k job. Apart from the casework, they looked pretty similar. No idea about the performance difference though.
 
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