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Which full-range speakers for 303 and Quad IIs?

A

Andimac

Member
To keep the story short and sweet, I am in the process of getting off the rather expensive SET merry go round and reverting to my first love, a Quad based vintage system. Call it old age, but this is the kit I was brought up on and various impending life changes dictate that I have to watch the audio pennies somewhat. So, without further ado, I am appealing to you good PFMers to help me draw up a short list of speakers which will be happy on the receiving end of all that my Quad 303 can throw at them, but further down the line, will give me the scope to have a play with, say, some Quad IIs. In the frame are:

Spendor BC1s - Pros: plenty around, are an easy load for valve and solid state amps, can be repaired, relatively inexpensive at £400 - £500 the pair SH. Cons: difficult to audition, on the large side for my smallish listening room, plug ugly - although that’s not a deal breaker......

Harbeth P3 ESRs - Pros: quite a following, beautifully made, can be serviced for the foreseeable future. Cons: mixed reviews (lack of bass), expensive at £1,000 - £1,400 SH

Any others? I’ve had ESL57s and ESL63s but must reluctantly rule these out on the grounds of space - or rather the lack of it.

As you can see, I have already shot myself in the foot by shortlististing the P3ESRs, which are contemporary and not vintage, so I haven’t ruled out considering a moden alternative. The HECO Elementa 300 has been mentioned by a dealer I know and whose opinion I trust.

All suggestions welcome.

Andimac
 
I don’t understand your usage of ‘full-range’ given you go on to cite multi-way drivers, and a mini-minitor such as the Harb which is inevitably not full-range in a frequency response sense?

For both amps avoid low impedances, keep things above 8 Ohms across the frequency range and all wil be good. As such if you want mini-monitors go for 15 Ohm LS3/5As or JR149s rather than the Harbeths as they are an easier load for these amps. BC1s are fine with both, as obviously are Quad 57s (neither is suited to ESL63s). Vntage (i.e. pre-HPD) Tannoys are another known-good match with either amp, as are countless old Wharfedales, Celestions etc. The key to both is just to keep well away from reactive modern loads, they were both designed back when speakers tended to be far more easy to drive.

FWIW full-range speakers, e.g. Lowthers etc, would be fine with either amp.
 
Thanks for the advice, greatly appreciated. Might not Harbeth argue that the P3ESR is full-range, irrespective of frequency response?!
 
Andimac said:
Thanks for the advice, greatly appreciated. Might not Harbeth argue that the P3ESR is full-range, irrespective of frequency response?!
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‘Full-range’ means one of two things in audio; a) a single driver covering the speakers whole frequency range (e.g. Lowther), or b) full frequency range, i.e. a speaker that has a very extended bass response (at least down to 30Hz or so). The P3ESR, as with any other two-way mini-monitor, is neither! Mini-monitors inevitably start to roll-off somewhere around 50Hz or above, it is just basic physics. Doesn’t stop them being great, I really like many little speakers, but full range they are not.
 
I tried a net audio modified 303 (and also a low powered Leben cs300 valve integrated) with Yamaha ns1000s and they sounded fine to me (albeit mainly on simpler material - jazz, vocals etc).
Prices for the ns1000 can vary tremendously depending on condition of cabs etc. I bought an average pair for about £750, I think about 2 years ago.
They were happy close to a rear wall so I would argue they are room friendly.
 
I’ve heard people who love the NS1000 driven by the 15 Watt Quad IIs, so they are clearly nice and easy to drive.
 
I’m using a 303/34 with JR 149s, and I use it mainly for very small scale classical music - a harpsichord or a cello or four singers. Never an organ or a symphony orchestra. I can listen to the music for hours, it’s totally engaging. It doesn’t have the imposing presence of my bigger (ESL) system, but it doesn’t matter because the Quad + JRs have the magic power to just obliterate the memory of the other setup.

The 303 has never been serviced, I’m bet it can sound even better.
 
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Difficult to be sure without knowing what kind of music you like, or your room acoustic. But if Classical or Jazz I'd tend to go with the LS3/5A or similar.
 
mandryka said:
The 303 has never been serviced, I’m bet it can sound even better.
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If it has really never been serviced it will likely need it by now! At the very least I’d crack it open, look for leaking or bulging caps and check the voltage rails and bias (one great aspect of these classic amps is all the info you need to service them is widely available online).
 
Jim Audiomisc said:
Difficult to be sure without knowing what kind of music you like, or your room acoustic. But if Classical or Jazz I'd tend to go with the LS3/5A or similar.
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I’ve always liked the LS/5A and their more contemporary variants but always ruled them out because I am a bit of a bass monkey....I think they’re great for mid-range friendly music, but I listen to full-scale symphonies, organ concertos, ambient etc and I like to feel my teeth rattle.
 
Andimac said:
I’ve always liked the LS/5A and their more contemporary variants but always ruled them out because I am a bit of a bass monkey....I think they’re great for mid-range friendly music, but I listen to full-scale symphonies, organ concertos, ambient etc and I like to feel my teeth rattle.
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Subwoofers? Rogers made huge ones designed for the LS3/5A which the LS3/5A's stood on top of and looked a bit like a pair of IMF transmission lines....
 
Andimac said:
I’ve always liked the LS/5A and their more contemporary variants but always ruled them out because I am a bit of a bass monkey....I think they’re great for mid-range friendly music, but I listen to full-scale symphonies, organ concertos, ambient etc and I like to feel my teeth rattle.
Click to expand...

That doesn't go very well with the 303 or II as they both have their LF rolled off to help stop it bothering the ESLs! 8-> However bigger speakers than the LS/5A may also be more efficient, etc, so give a sound you prefer. Alternative is as suggested, run a subwoofer - perhaps paralleled from the preamp to avoid it being affected by the power amp rolloff.

Given what you say, I'd assume an ESL57 wouldn't have suited you either.
 
Andimac said:
Cons: difficult to audition, on the large side for my smallish listening room, plug ugly - although that’s not a deal breaker......
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“Plug ugly”, really? A bit plain maybe, but I’ve never thought of them as ugly.:confused:

...then again, they’ve always been one of my favourite speakers.
 
Andimac said:
To keep the story short and sweet, I am in the process of getting off the rather expensive SET merry go round and reverting to my first love, a Quad based vintage system. Call it old age, but this is the kit I was brought up on and various impending life changes dictate that I have to watch the audio pennies somewhat. So, without further ado, I am appealing to you good PFMers to help me draw up a short list of speakers which will be happy on the receiving end of all that my Quad 303 can throw at them, but further down the line, will give me the scope to have a play with, say, some Quad IIs. In the frame are:

Spendor BC1s - Pros: plenty around, are an easy load for valve and solid state amps, can be repaired, relatively inexpensive at £400 - £500 the pair SH. Cons: difficult to audition, on the large side for my smallish listening room, plug ugly - although that’s not a deal breaker......

Harbeth P3 ESRs - Pros: quite a following, beautifully made, can be serviced for the foreseeable future. Cons: mixed reviews (lack of bass), expensive at £1,000 - £1,400 SH

Any others? I’ve had ESL57s and ESL63s but must reluctantly rule these out on the grounds of space - or rather the lack of it.

As you can see, I have already shot myself in the foot by shortlististing the P3ESRs, which are contemporary and not vintage, so I haven’t ruled out considering a moden alternative. The HECO Elementa 300 has been mentioned by a dealer I know and whose opinion I trust.

All suggestions welcome.

Andimac
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Since when were BC1s ‘plug ugly’ ? A veneered cabinet cannot really be described that way.
If you want ugly, try the Kef Blade...
 
Andimac said:
I’ve always liked the LS/5A and their more contemporary variants but always ruled them out because I am a bit of a bass monkey....I think they’re great for mid-range friendly music, but I listen to full-scale symphonies, organ concertos, ambient etc and I like to feel my teeth rattle.
Click to expand...
Well I just listened to a Mozart piano concerto on the 149s, it's very good. Put it like this, they drew me in and made me listen.
 
Andimac said:
I listen to full-scale symphonies, organ concertos, ambient etc and I like to feel my teeth rattle.
Click to expand...
Then why on earth are you considering the P3ESR, or any other mini-monitor for that matter? When listened to in the nearfield, they are magical and do convey the lower octaves surprisingly well (you'd be surprised how well your brain fills in what's missing), however they do have their limitations and IMO it's crazy to expect them to scale up to fill a room whilst sounding big and impactful in the lower registers. I'd second the recommendation of a pair of subwoofers if you want "teeth rattling" bass and are wedded to the idea of mini monitors.
 
ToTo Man said:
Then why on earth are you considering the P3ESR, or any other mini-monitor for that matter? When listened to in the nearfield, they are magical and do convey the lower octaves surprisingly well (you'd be surprised how well your brain fills in what's missing), however they do have their limitations and IMO it's crazy to expect them to scale up to fill a room whilst sounding big and impactful in the lower registers. I'd second the recommendation of a pair of subwoofers if you want "teeth rattling" bass and are wedded to the idea of mini monitors.
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Well, I have listened to full scale symphonies on the P3ESRs and was very pleasantly surprised. But my question was more about whether Quad 303a and Quad IIs, with their relative lack of grunt, would do them justice....
 
Jim Audiomisc said:
That doesn't go very well with the 303 or II as they both have their LF rolled off to help stop it bothering the ESLs! 8-> However bigger speakers than the LS/5A may also be more efficient, etc, so give a sound you prefer. Alternative is as suggested, run a subwoofer - perhaps paralleled from the preamp to avoid it being affected by the power amp rolloff.

Given what you say, I'd assume an ESL57 wouldn't have suited you either.
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I have had ESL57s and, for me, they still have the best mid-range of any speaker I have listened to. I’ve ruled them out on space grounds (my listening room is about 14’ by 10’) but they may come on to the radar.
 
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