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Which Bach Matthew Passion?

alanbeeb said:
I have the McCreesh recording..... but I'm afraid the one-voice-to-a-part thing just doesn't work for me (surely Bach would have had larger choral forces available?) and the suspension of disbelief does not occur for me with this performance. Whereas it absolutely does with JEG/EBS on Archiv and Harnoncourt's later Musicus Concentus Wien recording. And with Chailly's modern Leipzig recording - which surprisingly has generally quicker tempos than even McCreesh/Gabrieli! But would be my 3rd choice after Gardiner and Harnoncourt.

I'm going to give Klemperer a go though.....:)
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Actually, it’s the one voice to a part that makes me love the McCreesh - gives it clarity and fleetness of foot without any loss of awe. As to what Bach had in the way of forces, Rifkind set the cat among the pigeons by starting the OVPP movement with his B Minor Mass in the ?70s. Gardiner sneered at the ‘B Minor Madrigal’ but it changed how Bach is done now. I have better B Minors than Rifkind’s but I really love his cantatas done OVPP. Interestingly the latest view is that Bach probably had to put up with very small forces, but he wrote to the town council setting out his view of what he believed he should have - and that was more than one voice per part. (But a lot smaller than what was customary in the 50s and 60s).
 
Well I'm trying klemperer, just the very start.... OMG its awful.

it is nearly one-third of the pace that Chailly sets, more than double McCreesh. There is NO rythmn, and the melodies are just completely swallowed and rendered meaningless by the glacial speed. Even in 1961 I can't believe he got away with this.
 
alanbeeb said:
Well I'm trying klemperer, just the very start.... OMG its awful.

it is nearly one-third of the pace that Chailly sets, more than double McCreesh. There is NO rythmn, and the melodies are just completely swallowed and rendered meaningless by the glacial speed. Even in 1961 I can't believe he got away with this.
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Even at his deliberate pace Klemperer often manages to steer the juggernaut. He seems to ‘just’ hold the line.
 
alanbeeb said:
Well I'm trying klemperer, just the very start.... OMG its awful.

it is nearly one-third of the pace that Chailly sets, more than double McCreesh. There is NO rythmn, and the melodies are just completely swallowed and rendered meaningless by the glacial speed. Even in 1961 I can't believe he got away with this.
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Think of it as an ambient dub remix and it works beautifully! It just hangs there floating with a majestic almost early Klaus Schulze-like transcendence and solidity. Trying to deal with the whole thing at once is arguably a bit much, but a side now and again (there are nine of them) is a wonderful thing.
 
I'm pressing on further with Klemperer.... The chorales are just too slow, the recitatives Ok...and the Arias stupendously beautiful. (But still too slow)

Every time Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau's voice appears is a goosebump moment.

Also the soundstage and placement of voices is wonderful. Fantastic sound for 1961 - Walter Legge produced.

So OK I'll admit it is not all bad :)
 
Hmmm... Ex Cathedra are scheduled to start at 14:00, have one 20-minute interval and finish at 17:30.

Seems a bit long to me, given that their recording runs to 2hrs 40mins.

I'm wondering if they are going to insert an audience hymn contribution, as I believe they have done before now (there are surtitles to provide the words).

PS Yes, about 20 mins of extras before and after (ending with "Nun danket..." in English), plus poems in English and German prior to Part 2 getting under way... Odd!
 
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alanbeeb said:
Also the soundstage and placement of voices is wonderful. Fantastic sound for 1961 - Walter Legge produced.
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I’ve got the original issue blue-silver Columbia (Discogs). A legendary classical pressing. Something very special about the way it sounds and that is likely a huge factor in my liking it so much. Hard to put into words, but it just works!

PS It can make serious money with the right wind behind it (PopSike). I paid £5.99.
 
I have the CD. It is a superb recording and the singers are the best of the best of their time.

Klemperer`s speeds are always quirky but he makes it work.
 
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Having now heard it once I (for now, at least) want whichever performance maximises the drama - something close to the opera Bach had no opportunity to write!

And with soloists to suit - no vocal weak links!
 
Andrewxyz said:
Imagine a world where the BBC is brave enough to broadcast a full televised performance of St Matthew Passion on Good Friday.
It happened in 1994 - staging by Jonathan Miller, period instruments, Rufus Müller as evangelist, directed by Paul Goodwin. https://t.co/5Eu42pxoJG

https://twitter.com/jjhutchings/status/1644284440296693760
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This for me was a really magical event, and probably more than anything else was responsible for turning me on to the music. I am a Miller fan, I like minimal staging, and I thought Rufus Müller made a very impressive evangelist.

I've seen other staged versions of the passion -- one at Glyndebourne by Katie Mitchell and one in New York from Peter Sellars. But really Miller's for the BBC is the only one I liked the most.
 
Herreweghe so far... perfect sound presentation on my system, wonderful singers, and both instrumental sound and tempi are absolutely right for my taste :)

<PS Sleeve note is most interesting, too - context is everything...>

Live, I was entirely convinced by Ex Cathedra under Jeffrey Skidmore - a musical revelation for me. They are there at Symphony Hall every Good Friday, and (somewhat to my surprise) I want to go again...
 
mandryka said:
This for me was a really magical event, and probably more than anything else was responsible for turning me on to the music. I am a Miller fan, I like minimal staging, and I thought Rufus Müller made a very impressive evangelist.

I've seen other staged versions of the passion -- one at Glyndebourne by Katie Mitchell and one in New York from Peter Sellars. But really Miller's for the BBC is the only one I liked the most.
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I tried the Peter Sellars semi staged with the Berlin Phil, Rattle conducting... It's odd, very monochrome, I couldn't stay the course with it. It's all built around Mark Padmore (magnificent as ever) as the evangelist.

My interpretation of Sellars' interpretation is that its Matthew in grief trying to recount and make sense of the loss of his teacher, helped and comforted by his friends who sing the Arias. Worth trying maybe.
 
GavinA said:
McCreesh is the one I keep returning to. I have Richter (early and later), Harnoncourt, Herreweghe, Gardiner. All have good points (eg Fischer Dieskau on the first Richter) but as you say, McCreesh is swift, light and transparent and a joy.
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Just listened. Lovely performance. Very fluid.
 
GavinA said:
Interestingly the latest view is that Bach probably had to put up with very small forces, but he wrote to the town council setting out his view of what he believed he should have - and that was more than one voice per part.
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On that basis, every performance of the Fauré Requiem should have at least 200 singers as that is what he conducted it with.
 
‘True to the composer’s intentions’ is a defensible position- even if sometimes taken to extremes.
 
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