Didn't they win a best in show at what hi-fi. Now come on they must be good.....
What's Opposite to the Naim sound?
- Thread starter Fin
- Start date
Didn't they win a best in show at what hi-fi. Now come on they must be good.....
Steven Toy
Accuphase newbie
Densen B330 + B&W, that should work well.
herb
brain's right hemisphere
Agreed. 1990, dealer demo with latest spec LP12 and 'briks. The brand new first Linn amps, Expo VI, VII, VIII and equivalent Naim. The Expo was last and I was worried, not liking what I was hearing - all thin and shouty. I knew within 10 seconds that I had to have the Exposures. The dealer was furious and my motorcycling leathers and taste in music came in for abuse. (This was the beginning of the Linn/Naim amp wars with awful associated politics).
I still have them, they worked without trouble for over 20 years but need a service now (I think). An ATC integrated works for me these days.
I do love Naim CD players though, they seem to give music the tension you hear in live music, my CDQ and Meridian are fine players but are slightly boring.
Oh yes, don't we all miss 80s/90s dealer arrogance? I well remember empty shops with staff refusing a demo "unless you're going to buy today" (OK then, goodbye) and better yet some jumped-up tosser telling me that going to a Gyrodec from a Rega 2 was "too big a leap and you probably can't afford it". Well, you just lost a sale, son, because I had enough in my current account to buy 2, but if you can't be bothered I'll get a Linn instead.
I don't miss that at all.
herb
brain's right hemisphere
I must admit that I wind up some dealers these days. I ask them what was the last time you went to a live amplified/unamplified concert? What exactly is High Fidelity? They look surprised. Why? I go to these things two or three times a month.
Dealers are just that, though they tend to be more friendly these days if you dress properly.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
What music sounds like in a concert venue is totally irrelevant to me, whether amplified or not. Surely people primarily go to concerts/gigs for the experience and ambiance as well as their choice of music.
There's no way this experience can be replicated in domestic surroundings, but what well-matched hifi does is give you a variation on that experience sufficient to 'turn you on' to a particular performance.
To me this is no less an experience, but a hell of a lot more convenient and giving me a much wider choice of repertoire as the mood demands. Probably cheaper, too, if you add up all those concert ticket costs !
We are no further on from Peter Walker's (Quad) 'closest approach to the original sound' in principle, but quite a way on sonically, methinks.
You know what, I don't think that we are very much nearer Peter Walker's goal, in the real world. Get a Garrard 401 (1960's), a Quad 33/303, and some vintage Tannoys or Quad 57s. Plug it all in and compare it to any modern source. Bring it on, I'll see your best man. I bet my 40 year old gear can give the vast majority of modern stuff a bloody nose, in fact I know it can.
herb
brain's right hemisphere
What music sounds like in a concert venue is totally irrelevant to me, whether amplified or not. Surely people primarily go to concerts/gigs for the experience and ambiance as well as their choice of music.
There's no way this experience can be replicated in domestic surroundings, but what well-matched hifi does is give you a variation on that experience sufficient to 'turn you on' to a particular performance.
To me this is no less an experience, but a hell of a lot more convenient and giving me a much wider choice of repertoire as the mood demands. Probably cheaper, too, if you add up all those concert ticket costs !
We are no further on from Peter Walker's (Quad) 'closest approach to the original sound' in principle, but quite a way on sonically, methinks.
Well I ran the original Quad 'statics from new for 14 years and played in an orchestra. I wish they were available now, certainly not in an 'improved' form though.
My current Naim/ATC/Harbeth system reproduces the music I hear live superbly well, considering it is just a stereo. I do love my huge CD pile.
Costs of live music at the Usher and Queen's Hall are are about £50 a month for me, half a tank of petrol.
John Channing
fruit box forever
But was there actually much room for improvement? If they were 99.9% of the way there in the 1960s, it is not a big surprise that modern equipment does not significantly better it.
I would say the same about digital equipment now, it is basically a solved problem and once you get beyond spending a few hundred quid you are just eking out the last few fractions of a percent at huge cost.
Well, that's the point I was making, in response to Mike Reed's comment that he felt that PW's goal was still valid. Mike thinks that we have got a lot nearer since PW's day, it seems that you don't and I agree with you. The step change has come in price - a £30 MP3 player is dazzlingly good compared to the cassettes and cheap record players of the past. See also a tablet computer connected to Spotify.
John Channing
fruit box forever
I agree with you, I am often staggered how good a smart phone with a decent pair of headphones can sound. Ironically, I think the only area where there is still a lot of potential for improvement is with speakers and their interaction with the listening room. It is a complete reverse of the 80s source first mantra!
Yes, I had a NAP 250 followed by 135s into Epos ES 22s (which were designed using a NAP 250 as the "reference" amplifier). Worked very well.
darrenyeats
pfm Member
What headphones do really well is loudness and dynamics without distortion, coherence and lack of acoustical problems like room modes, reflections etc. They can really teach a lesson to most speaker systems in these areas.
But if you visit head-fi.org you'll see people are quite preoccupied with sources and amps. Although I can and often do use my phone with HPs (its sins are of omission rather than commission, which I find quite important) there is more to be had.
But if you visit head-fi.org you'll see people are quite preoccupied with sources and amps. Although I can and often do use my phone with HPs (its sins are of omission rather than commission, which I find quite important) there is more to be had.
Sins of omission are indeed easier to live with. I have a little DAB radio that I use in the office upstairs or in hotel rooms when I'm working away. It has a single 3" speaker and no bass to speak of, yet it's surprisingly decent to listen to within its limitations of low volume amd limited frequency response.
Julf
Facts are our friends
It is interesting to see Archimago's measurements of iPhone 4 & iPhone 6. His summary: "Given the measurements I'm seeing, the iPhone's DAC is excellent and can produce very accurate output."
darrenyeats
pfm Member
Julf, sadly I don't have an iPhone, I agree they (6 especially) measure as well as good dedicated sources! ISTR a question mark about crosstalk, though?
Julf
Facts are our friends
I don't have an iPhone either, but I am not sure I am sad about that.
How much does crosstalk really matter? I would say it is a non-issue with headphones (actually, headphones could use some additional crosstalk), and with speakers you can always move the speakers a little bit away from each other.