1. Things you need to know about the new ‘Conversations’ PM system:

    a) DO NOT REPLY TO THE NOTIFICATION EMAIL! I get them, not the intended recipient. I get a lot of them and I do not want them! It is just a notification, log into the site and reply from there.

    b) To delete old conversations use the ‘Leave conversation’ option. This is just delete by another name.
    Dismiss Notice

What would I gain or lose by moving from PC to Mac

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Sloop John B, Oct 18, 2021.

  1. Kirk

    Kirk pfm Member

    Than Wintel. Apple service has been fantastic. Better products too.
  2. dweezil

    dweezil pfm Member

    We've totally left Apple now, had a few update related failures and lost support on older programs.

    As the household IT person it all became too much aggravation so now we don't have a laptop.

    Android tablets and phones, all cheap, and a Wndows PC.

    All works seamlessly and i can sync with the office PC as well.

    Can't remember the last time i saw a blue screen!
    Bananahead and gintonic like this.
  3. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    Again I dispute the price aspect if you view it as TCO (and care for your kit). PCs, even really sought-after high-end ones like say Panasonic Toughbooks lose value far faster than Macs and have a shorter useful life. The only way to really win on TCO is to self-build a desktop/server case machine and keep upgrading it, but who the hell uses a clunky old desktop machine in a home environment these days? I do 98% of my daily work with an iPad!

    As to the second point much to my amusement Google tells me I can actually install Linux on my 2005 G4 Mac Mini should I wish to! Why I’d want to is beyond me given a £40 Raspberry Pi would kick its arse in every conceivable way, but it can be done!
  4. sideshowbob

    sideshowbob 47 Lab Rat

    Every single Macbook I've ever owned (about half a dozen) has had battery or keyboard failures within a matter of 2 or 3 years. So my experience is not the same as yours. Apple seem to have a history of problems with their battery technology in particular. And recent Apple machines are almost unserviceable by end users, for even simple fixes.
    gintonic likes this.
  5. gintonic

    gintonic 50 shades of grey pussy cats

    that doesnt exist. The Windows - INTEL/AMD stuff involves 100s of manufacturers and hardware vendors.......and possible combinations of hardware etc
    Pete MB&D likes this.
  6. hifilover1979

    hifilover1979 Bigger than you...

    Fully agree re the M1 MBA

    Exactly what I run my business with and use as my personal Mac too; 11" M1 iPad works superbly with it and I've just bought myself a new IP 12 Pro Max this morning which I've collected off my sis-in-law as she doesn't want it as it's too big; so she's going to buy the IP 13 Mini IIRC (still keeping my Pixel 4XL though) :D

    The new Macs are scarily expensive, but massively powerful too and are absolutely OTT for anyone that won't take advantage of said power; the M1 MBA and MBP are lightning quick and well worth buying IMO
    twotone likes this.
  7. PaulMB

    PaulMB pfm Member

    I've been using Linux on a PC for about 15 years, on a succession of desktops and laptops, and am very happy that way. No licences, no viruses, everything just works.
    dan m and vince rocker like this.
  8. twotone

    twotone pfm Member

    I've been using the same 15" MBPr since 2015 and never really had a problem with it except for the retina screen laminatation issue which didn't really bother me but I took it to Apple back in 2018 and they replaced the entire top half of the laptop FOC, the invoice price was £566 inc vat, if I'd have had to pay that I would have scrapped it but it's still working fine today.

    I paid around £1350 for it brand new in a sealed box from someone on AV forums who had bought it from the Apple store in Birmingham on the Apple education scheme.

    Same with their phones, think I'm now on my third or fourth iPhone since about 2012 and never had a problem with any of them, I've just received £180 from Apple for a trade in on a yellow XR, no one was going to buy that SH never mind pay £180 for it, the MBPr is boxed up and will be posted away today for a trade in Apple have offered me £320 for and I expect to receive that amount but we'll see.

    I have an old Sony Viao which was bought in 2007 or 08 and it still works and the current HP laptop seems a decent machine and is regarded as a competitor laptop for a 13" MBP which it probably is.

    Around the same time I bought my son a Sony Viao laptop which was written off after eighteen months but we did receive a new Sony Viao (different model) and a cash refund for the difference but that was after a huge big load of cr @ p from both Sony and the seller (Macro).

    I bought my daughter a MacBook in 2006 for university and it failed big time about three years later so I bought her a cheap windows laptop to get her through her course then I contacted Apple and they did a full rebuild of the MacBook FOC I subsequently sold that MacBook on ebay in about 2012 for £220 we only paid £800 for initially.

    The hardware from the various manufacturers are all probably very good and the equal of each other but it's the operating systems that set each apart and IMO Apple's OS's are way better than windows but I'm just an ordinary user looking for a reliable phone and laptop so I prefer to buy Apple stuff cause I like how it works with the operating system plus in my experience Apple are a very good company to deal with in terms of buying equipment without any hassles but I'm sure other laptop manufacturer's are good too, my experience with HP, for example is pretty good.
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2021
  9. garyi

    garyi leave blank

    Excellent resale value
    Trackpads are second to none, you really have to use one to understand
    Works within the apple eco system, messages, photos, contacts, emails etc across all devices cleanly.
    Screens are generally super
    Great customer service and just drop it into one of the many shops if there is an issue.

    Expensive initial purchase
    Apple people are preachy
    In general not as fast. Office is a turn and remains a turd on mac. I have a macbook pro 2019 16in model, 16gigs ram i7, word still loads as slow as it ever did. Same for Adobe apps, yes this is third party apps but still effect the end user.
    Windows seems to be on a better development cycle they are pushing hard, OSX still does not have cut paste in finder.

    I have ignored reparability etc, all laptops broadly are in the same boat and if you want something as subjectively nice as a macbook you will pay exactly the same amount for pc equivalent.

    All in all for me, mac for laptop, PC for desktop.
    dan m likes this.
  10. KrisW

    KrisW pfm Member

    I’m a long-time Mac user (since 1996 or so), now exclusively using Windows at home for the last 10 years, but my employer is pretty much a Mac shop. Here’s my current pro/con list for Apple.

    • Stuff generally works very well together if you stay within Apple ecosystem
    • Third-party applications are generally more consistent in terms of keyboard shortcuts, settings, etc. (this has always been a strength of Macs, even back to the beginnings)
    • Good UI continuity - no radical changes between releases, or islands of ancient UI, like MS.
    • Customer support better than most of the PC brands - especially the cheaper ones.
    • Apple M1 CPU is the best efficiency/performance option on laptops right now
    • MacOS is Less targeted by malware producers than Windows.
    • Apple’s laptop trackpads are at top of the industry. (Microsoft is closest on Windows laptops)

    • Customer support is not better than the best PC bands (Microsoft, Dell in my experience)
    • You get what you pay for: a similar-spec Windows machine retains its value, and operates for just as long as a Mac.
    • Modern MacOS is just as stuffed with stupid features as Windows.

    • On laptops, slightly more expensive for the same capability. On desktop, a lot more expensive for the same capability.
    • Laptop hardware is not built as well as it used to be (2015 Macbook Pro is last good model) - we’ve also had DOAs and logic-board failures on new laptops that we never saw before in 15 years of buying Macs.
    • (For desktops) no mid-range workstation offering, expandability is poor on the affordable desktop products; workstations are not price-competitive.
    • Customer support is second-class if you’re not near an Apple retail location.
    • Lots of things in macOS funnel you into using an iPhone and Apple services; makes it very frustrating if you need to need to work outside the Apple ecosystem.
    • M1 has nothing special to offer to desktop users.
    • Linux on M1 is not as stable as on Intel models; it is not easy to legally run Windows on M1 models.
    • Short software lifetime: Apple routinely makes its runtime libraries obsolete, leading to a lot more abandoned older applications than Windows.
    • Poorer support for third-party peripherals: use a mac long enough and you will find something that you need to use, but can’t because there’s no mac driver.
    • All-in-one desktop iMac models are environmentally nasty: when the CPU board is dead, you have to throw out a perfectly good monitor too.
    • Almost no flexibility in hardware choice: graphics chipsets are generally good, but if you need the something better, Apple can’t provide it.
    • No touch-input or pen support on macOS.
    • Apple’s obsession with making its products thin means laptop keyboards are poor compared to similarly-priced Windows laptops.

    Of course, my con list is longer than the pro, as you’d expect from someone who has had, and refused, many opportunities to own a Mac again. But having been on both sides of the fence I’d say that the grass isn’t greener, it’s only that the cow shit is in different places than the ones you’re used to looking in.

    @garyi - Finder has had cut and paste for years: select the files, then Command-C to copy, or Command-X to move, go to destination window and Command-V to complete the operation.
    twotone and Wolfmancatsup like this.
  11. raysablade

    raysablade pfm Member

    I'll remember that last statement next time I'm at the command line typing "sudo".
  12. Darth Vader

    Darth Vader From the Dark Side

    I think it really depends on the type of user you are and how many of the features of Windows that you regularly use. A basic user that only needs email, web browsing, some occasional typing and displaying photos etc should be able to flip from Windows to macOS with little hassle. It will be a different experience though.

    If you are a user that relies for their business on complex Word documents, spreadsheets, presentations etc then that will be a whole new ball game and a frustrating experience trying to get your work done. Its bad enough when these office apps are upgraded in Windows even more so under macOS. Thats why I have standardised on LibreOffice as I can use it on all 3 platforms and is compatible with M$ Office documents.

    For a power user I find that macOS is more akin to trying to type with boxing gloves on. The things that I can do in Windows and Linux become more frustrating under macOS and I have to resort to the CLI a lot more to gain access and faff around a lot more. Apple appears to hide/prevent you going under the hood. Only today I somehow managed to mount (by accident) something called StarSeed21A5294g.x86_64SURamDisk.dmg in Monterey (macOS 12) so of course I wanted more info and found its mount point here and I could only reach it via the CLI:-

    /Users/darthvader/Library/Group Containers/

    However I could only ls down to /Users/darthvader/Library/Group Containers/ whilst I did cd all the way down the directory tree the ls command was banned at each level with the message '.: Operation not permitted' . And yes even with superuser access rights.

    Fun no?

  13. Finnegan

    Finnegan pfm Member

    Migrated to Mac around 15 years and would never go back to PC. Last solid state drive MacBook lasted about ten years. Apple after care is p*ss poor however unless you’re willing to shell out for AppleCare.
    julifriend likes this.
  14. richardg

    richardg Admonishtrator

    Good call. Now let's start some proper apple bashing. My Macbook Pro motherboard went tits up after 3 years and 3 months. And then again after 5 years. 150 quid each time.

    Finder is no more intutitve than Explorer for people with a balanced view on things.

    I really hate that Itunes apple ID login shit, too.

    I only bought it as I was getting viruses all the time, but that was 2009. In 2014 I decided apple hardware was not reliable enough I and went back to Windows, just using Defender for free. Never had a virus in 7 years. So there's another reaosn gone for buying an apple.

    Finally, I used to get the hardware / software all made by the same people might mean better interaction between the two. I still get it. So my next laptop will be a Microsoft laptop, which although expensive, gives me more spec than Apple for the money. And it's got a metal chassis, which I liked on my Macbook Pro.
  15. Cheese

    Cheese Bitter lover

    Same here. Apple are pretty good but Windows have gone some way too, also softwarewise. Can’t say one bad thing about M365, at least for private users.
  16. garyi

    garyi leave blank

    I really wouldnt put blue screens or viruses as a reason to purchase mac over PC, both seem to be very much under control in my experience
  17. sq225917

    sq225917 Bit of this, bit of that

    The new macs are fast, daughters m1 air is comfortably the match of a well specced mid level pc laptop, it does more with a couple of gigs of ram than Windows does with 8.

    My msi gp76 leopard blows it out of the water in every way except battery life though, and it runs the heavy cad and 3d apps I need.

    But, if I wasn't wedded to a few windows apps I'd be all over a new mbpro.

    Longevity hasn't been an apple strong point since they went to soldered HD and memory. That said my 2010 17" mbpro still is still in daily use as a music server and only on battery number 2.

    The new macs are spendy, but as T says you have to look at TCO. My old mbpro has cost me £150 ,a year Inc all the extra ram ssd and battery it's ever had.
  18. tiggers

    tiggers pfm Member

    You're never going to get a straight answer on this question as both Windows and Macs have their fans. All this 'WIndows hardware blue screens all the time' and 'Apple hardware is unreliable' is just personal experience stuff and is mainly bollocks. I went from Windows to Macs several years ago due to the (IMO) woeful Windows 8 OS and then the constant updates running, but Windows 10 is much better in both regards. Personally my Apple hardware has been uber reliable, but not everyone can say the same, however I suspect it's no better/worse than Windows equivalents. I also still have an iMac from 2011 and a Macbook Air from 2013 in regular use with no issues so the machines do last in terms of still being usable. There are pluses and minuses to the OS just as their are for Windows and it's not completely perfect despite what the Apple fanboys would have you believe. I think the only way to answer your question may be to go to an Apple store and get a demo/have a play with one trying out the sort of things you would use it for... then you can see for yourself how it would work for you.
    hifilover1979 likes this.
  19. AndyU

    AndyU pfm Member

    I agree, Microsoft365 is excellent. And it runs very well on my iMac, macmini, iPad and iPhone.
  20. tedmanzie

    tedmanzie pfm Member

    OP - The new M1 Macs (Apple chips) are where it's at, they already had the Air & 13" Mac Book Pro, and have just released the 14" and 16" yesterday. If you're going to get a Mac (and I suggest you do!) then get one of those. I'm looking to sell my 2020 16" MBP and go to an M1 14", it looks like the ideal machine.

Share This Page


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice