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What are the world's best speakers to bring the philharmonic into your living room?

Many people have measured with an sound level meter the peaks at the listener position during concerts and rehearsals. The highest peaks are about 105 db(A) at the listener position (not on the stage!). Very many Hifi systems can manage that. Some, with bigger loudspeakers, can mange that also without distortion.


I bet that during the loud tutti of a big orchestra you wouldn't be able to hear what several instruments are playing. Actually depending on the recording on many hifi systems you hear clearer certain instruments than at live performances.


I agree with warmer and more natural but detailed not often. What is heard much more in detail is the projection of the instruments in the hall. The acoustic of the concert hall is on the recording something that has not much to do then the one at the listener position during the concert. There are some systems that can reproduce well and in good details the characteristics of the hall recorded on the media but this will never be the same as the one on live performances. Is this so important? Anyway for those who are used to go to different halls can relativate this aspect.


Well especially big systems do fill the space with sound. I must say this point is for me very important and everyone who visit me noticed this and was impressed I heard though several very big hifi systems which are able to to that.
Having a sweet point or not has not much to do with "filling the whole space wit sound". I just wonder why is it so important not having a sweet point: anyway even in a concert hall you sit in a place and don't move. Or do you walk around, turning your head around when they are performing?
With certain acoustical changes in your listening room it is possible to enlarge the sweet point a bit. Most of it depends though on the characteristics of the loudspeakers.




Definitively not: it goes to about 32 Hz. Timpany goes down to about 70 Hz. There are many big systems where you feel the lower frequencies in your body much more than in a concert hall. But also speakers like Tannoy do that job, for me not in a natural way.


You will never be able to get the original. But there is no original: if you move 4 seats to the right, to the left behind or in front in the concert hall, it will sound anyway different.


Still you can come close to a realistic perception. In any case there should be a bit of compression in classical music: the position of the microphones are much more closer to the instruments than any listener. I hope your ideal is not to hear an orchestra 2-3 meters away form the performers.


I don't have any big issues with recordings, also modern ones. Most of my x thousands of CDs play on my system with great dynamics and enough details. It is certainly a question of what system one has.

Interesting. May I ask amps and speakers you use?
 
If hifi systems are soooo good and speakers are so great, why there is such huge difference between live philharmonics and even the most expensive/best hifi system trying to play them ?

I heard a lot of hifi systems sometimes worth hundreds tousands euros and (for me) this is completetly different from live preformance.

Places like Sydney Opera and others have some speaker systems, but they are not used for philharmonics but for other kinds of music requiring amplification, because in places like that not only philharmonics are playing.
 
Stacked Quads (57s) are the closest approach I've heard.

Even these were not that close, although rather closer than other apparently well-thought of speakers. Any of the several large Tannoys I've heard have been terribly disappointing, unacceptably coloured and slow to my ears.

3. The sound of all instruments is always warm, natural and detailed.

I'd agree with many of your points but real instruments are frequently not 'warm' unless we have a completely different interpretation of the word. I wouldn't describe the piccolo shrieks in Shostakovich's 5th symphony as 'warm'. An accurate transducer should reproduce instruments as harsh, strident and piercing if that is how they sound in the concert hall.
 
If hifi systems are soooo good and speakers are so great, why there is such huge difference between live philharmonics and even the most expensive/best hifi system trying to play them ?

I heard a lot of hifi systems sometimes worth hundreds tousands euros and (for me) this is completetly different from live preformance.

Places like Sydney Opera and others have some speaker systems, but they are not used for philharmonics but for other kinds of music requiring amplification, because in places like that not only philharmonics are playing.

I think any difference is due to the size of the acoustic space.

You seemed to have jumped from complete unawareness of ATC speakers in prestigious concert halls, to miraculous knowledge of what they are used for. The Royal Opera House do like to host heavy metal concerts, it must be admitted.
 
Here's an article about ATCs custom speakers for the Walt Disney concert hall. Unlike most PAs, they are designed to be used on the stage with the musicians.
 
Tomek, there are many things to take in consideration.

1. The personal experiences of live concerts:
- how often does someone listen to live performances.
- how many different concert halls he visits
- how often he changes places during the same concerts or in different concerts in the same hall
- how he analyze the sound at the concert hall and how often he does that. Does he also compare the sound in the different places.

2. The Hifi systems heard:
- how they were assembled (which criteria was chosen to use this or another component)
- what life experiences does / do the person(s) have who assembled the system.
- which his is / are there sound characteristic priorities (do they match the ones of the listener?)
- how intensively the person who assembled the system has tried to compare it to live performances. Was it his intension to build a system that sounds like "live"? Don't forget, not many / all people have that goal.

3. Room acoustics
- how does the room and system interact together
- was room acoustics taken in consideration when trying to achieve the goal.


Perception of what live sound is, is personal therefore most systems you hear need anyway to be adjusted soundwise to your personal exigences. This can also last years. Also for any kind of comparing you should cut as much as possible your emotions. After hearing the same Mahler symphony for a whole week during the daily rehearsals and during the evening at the public performance, you won't be anymore impressed by the fabulous dynamics or by the hammer hit during the 5th symphony. You can concentrate on other thing and a sound level meter can tell you if the system you are hearing is at the same level as you heard it live. I have heard many presentations of system where the sound level was simply too high, higher than any live performance. I believe that many big systems have been assemble by people who don't have so much live experiences and that these people didn't really compare intensively enough their live experiences with what they were assembling.
I believe these people have other priorities and actually are emotionally leaded in other directions when getting in contact with hifi.
 
Here's an article about ATCs custom speakers for the Walt Disney concert hall. Unlike most PAs, they are designed to be used on the stage with the musicians.

Wich musicians ? Jazz, Rock but not the philharmonics.

In the last 30 years since my high school i vistited probably more than one tausend classical concerts and had a chance to listen to one incredible number of great artists solo and also heard probably all major philharmonics of this world. I never heard any classical music artists or philharmonic orchestra playing with amps/speakers.

If they are playing in one normal concert hall, they just DON'T NEED IT.

I think that only sometimes, when they are playing outside in some parks or amphitheater like in Verona there is amplification and speakers, but i never go to such a places listen to them.
 
The best I have heard personally for orchestral music are the Goldmund Epilog 1+2 and the Steinway-Lyngdorf Model D
 
I'd agree with many of your points but real instruments are frequently not 'warm' unless we have a completely different interpretation of the word. I wouldn't describe the piccolo shrieks in Shostakovich's 5th symphony as 'warm'. An accurate transducer should reproduce instruments as harsh, strident and piercing if that is how they sound in the concert hall.
Yes but also take in consideration the distance from which you hear the instrument. Further you go away the warmer / less harsh the sound will be. Now when we talk about characteristics of live sound we should try to find a common base. In this case certainly we should agree first about the distance, position and maybe the type of concert hall. I would also put the composition in this base. Instruments are used differently depending on the composition (see your example about the 5th symphony of Shostakovich).
 
If they are playing in one normal concert hall, they just DON'T NEED IT.
Also for most Jazz music it is not necessary to have amplification. It was simply great those jazz concerts in the concert halls (for example Brubeck a few years ago) without amplification. When they told the concert would be without amplification in agreement with the players, the whole concert hall started to clap their hands! I hate live concert amplified when it is not necessary.
 
Interesting. May I ask amps and speakers you use?

Loudspeaker system: Nestorovic LABS System 16 (latest version, 2005?)
Amplifier for satellites (> 200 Hz): Nestorovic LABS NA-1
Amplifier for Subs (< 200 Hz): Krell FPB 700 cx

But again it is more important the effort in tuning the system with the room acoustics according to your own live experiences.
 
Wich musicians ? Jazz, Rock but not the philharmonics.

In the last 30 years since my high school i vistited probably more than one tausend classical concerts and had a chance to listen to one incredible number of great artists solo and also heard probably all major philharmonics of this world. I never heard any classical music artists or philharmonic orchestra playing with amps/speakers.

If they are playing in one normal concert hall, they just DON'T NEED IT.

With ATC, you wouldn't know.
 
How about Martin Logans? Anyone heard them lately?

Louballoo

Listening to mine now... I've had, amongst others:
LS3/5a, Active Isobariks, and Quad ESL 57, and my Martin Logan Summits are so far beyond any of them that comparison is almost pointless. I'm sure there are better, but nothing I will ever be able to afford.
 
If hifi systems are soooo good and speakers are so great, why there is such huge difference between live philharmonics and even the most expensive/best hifi system trying to play them ?

I heard a lot of hifi systems sometimes worth hundreds tousands euros and (for me) this is completetly different from live preformance.

Places like Sydney Opera and others have some speaker systems, but they are not used for philharmonics but for other kinds of music requiring amplification, because in places like that not only philharmonics are playing.
so you claim.

It might be worth asking those who have heard titian's (spartaco's) system what they thought of it.
 
ATCs are used in many professional live applications, including Sydney Opera House, as already mentioned, and other venues you might have heard of, such as The Royal Opera House, London, Wigmore Hall, and the Walt Disney Concert Hall in Los Angeles.

So if there was ever a speaker to bring the phil to your sofa, it's ATC.

I wouldn't be that concerned with what operas use . They use industry standards nothing more . Ever been in classical musician home and listen to his Boombox setup?. Most of them (classical musicians ) have an equivalent of boombox at homes and are deaf to differences in performance of audio equipment , just a different mindset. ATC is a good sounding speaker with decent dynamics for direct radiating drivers . It is also little cold sounding and tonally washed out but it would be a minor criticism. (I'm not familiar with active atc's)
I haven't heard any big commercial speaker worth 1/10 it's price for big orchestral pieces . Most of them sound forced and mechanical and way to "impressive" Life music doesn't sound that way at all . Unfortunately without this "engineered in " impressiveness non of the audiophools would pay the sums they are asking for their shiny MDF boxes . It wouldn't work on their expensive yachts entertaining Eastern European whores with Italo Disco .
Ever had an impression that the bigger , more expensive speaker the more ridiculous it sounds? But why blame the speaker designers when the only public going to Orchestra Halls are geriatric Jews and post senior citizens? There are no customers for that kind of speakers. Certainly not subjects of his Royal Highness brainwashed by loyal Hi-fi press into Naim, Linn ,Rega triangle (forgot the porridge:) like there is nothing beyond that.
 
The best speakers I've ever heard in my life where the Acustat Direct Drive ESL's - truly stunning.

I later built a Direct Drive ESL amp for my ML CLS's...
 
http://www.tyleracoustics.com/Decade.html


top classical engineers I know use these (mm5)

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and]]

evolution mm3

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the requirements for classical are the same. a speaker that is good is good on any thing. no specialization. if it is better on one thing...it sucks.
 


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