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Way to go Greta

....I think people can see what’s happening. Whether they are motivated, blind or feel impotent to do anything, for me is an ethical not an L/R political discussion. Although I aknowlege the inevitability if that, since it is both resources and people of all creeds and colours. who must be swayed.

Did a quick google on top 10 polluting countries interms of CO2 and plastics pollution . Interesting when you look at the geo political and demographics of both. It is surprising. I’ll let folk find their own facts, since I have little knowledge :)rolleyes:), but suffice to say, it is not the sole problem of white folk in the western world. The problem is far more widespread and focussed in Asia-Pacific that the west (US excepted as they are #2 CO2 poluter.

The dialogue to be complete, must turn to and factor in population growth and management. Humans have doubled in 50 years, if do same in next 50..,,
Taking China as an example, the "white folks" of the world are getting most of their stuff made in China and up until recently plenty of "white folks" were sending their plastics to China for recylcling .. so a significant proportion of the CO2 emissions and plastic pollution coming out of China is not just China's problem.

Also worth adding that China's "Three-North Shelter Forest Program", which started in 1978, has planted 66 billion new trees (so far).
 
The worst part is the look on his face as he basks in the adulation.

I imagine this display was done at his request.
He appeared to me to be suppressing a giggle at one point as the shaking and mumbly chanting increased in intensity or that he was letting out a silent fart.
Meanwhile Uday Trump is showing off his ‘Christian’ credentials with the Crusader helmet design on his gun.

 
Taking China as an example, the "white folks" of the world are getting most of their stuff made in China and up until recently plenty of "white folks" were sending their plastics to China for recylcling .. so a significant proportion of the CO2 emissions and plastic pollution coming out of China is not just China's problem.

Also worth adding that China's "Three-North Shelter Forest Program", which started in 1978, has planted 66 billion new trees (so far).

Agree. It's not a simplex cause and effect problem, especially with WW chasing for the lowest cost production and manufacturing. Brings me back to thinking about the (above) top 10 global corp initial producers of the polluting plastics - Coca Cola, PepsiCo etc. Ascribing simple Right Wing diatribe to these I feel is underestimating their global reach and ability to work with (operate ABOVE imho) and also manipulate the political and economic systems of most persuasions across most geographies.

My point was and remains that making this thing a race or L/R issue is just not going to help. It's hardly helping elsewhere at present. Unless divsion is seen as useful vehicle to us all cleaning up our collective Species Act.

Was just listening to Porcupine Tree's 'Fear of a blank planet' LP last night.
 
2050 is the new 2100. (Soon to be 2030) -

https://www.independent.co.uk/envir...end-human-civilisation-research-a8943531.html

World Bank concerned over global growth slowing again. Blames everything but a world on hold for a new iPhone or Streaming series -

https://www.axios.com/world-bank-cuts-growth-forecast-d552ce67-b547-4350-80c4-0fec759510ad.html

Pesky existential projections. Not written by anyone worth cancelling, probably not of interest -

https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/148cb0_a1406e0143ac4c469196d3003bc1e687.pdf
 
guest,

To me, its the 'doers of ' rather than the 'deniers' of climate change, who need tackling first.

This is a good example of what I was talking about the other day — Righty Aussie PM Scott Morrison wants to outlaw climate boycotts because they hurt the economy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...imate-boycotts-arguing-they-threaten-economy/

Given how much Australian infrastructure has been burned to the ground, you'd think he might be somewhat more receptive to factoring in the costs of environmental disasters to the economy.

Joe
 
....isn't it preferable to divert rather than hurt the economies of the worl
guest,



This is a good example of what I was talking about the other day — Righty Aussie PM Scott Morrison wants to outlaw climate boycotts because they hurt the economy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...imate-boycotts-arguing-they-threaten-economy/

Given how much Australian infrastructure has been burned to the ground, you'd think he might be somewhat more receptive to factoring in the costs of environmental disasters to the economy.

Joe


Understood and reprehensible. For me its better to divert rather than actively hurt the economies of the world.

However to contrast. The Aus PMs poor stance and records, the ALP seems very close to the Govt, almost to point of mirroring them in their last election pledges on climate:
https://www.carbonbrief.org/australian-election-2019-what-manifestos-say-energy-climate-change

Not impressive stuff.
 
Agree. It's not a simplex cause and effect problem, especially with WW chasing for the lowest cost production and manufacturing. Brings me back to thinking about the (above) top 10 global corp initial producers of the polluting plastics - Coca Cola, PepsiCo etc. Ascribing simple Right Wing diatribe to these I feel is underestimating their global reach and ability to work with (operate ABOVE imho) and also manipulate the political and economic systems of most persuasions across most geographies.

My point was and remains that making this thing a race or L/R issue is just not going to help. It's hardly helping elsewhere at present. Unless divsion is seen as useful vehicle to us all cleaning up our collective Species Act.

Was just listening to Porcupine Tree's 'Fear of a blank planet' LP last night.
Yes, I would agree with all of that
 
guest,



This is a good example of what I was talking about the other day — Righty Aussie PM Scott Morrison wants to outlaw climate boycotts because they hurt the economy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...imate-boycotts-arguing-they-threaten-economy/

Given how much Australian infrastructure has been burned to the ground, you'd think he might be somewhat more receptive to factoring in the costs of environmental disasters to the economy.

Joe
we really would assume that.. I find the Australian right wing position baffling.

I’ve come to the conclusion that Scotty from marketing and his team are fully aware of the validity of AGW theory, but they recognise that Australia’s economy is pretty screwed if it constrains its coal mining industry, so they’ve decided to pretend they don’t accept AGW.

(Hi btw Joe, I hope you’re well!)
 
To be fair, judging interest in wildlife deaths due to the AUS fires by social media isn't a good metric given it's difficult to make this story about the self. I mean, what sort of look is it to post how your vet had to put Fluffy down in a thread concerning a billion critters being slow roasted? Well ... maybe just one pic of Fluffy.
 
He appeared to me to be suppressing a giggle at one point as the shaking and mumbly chanting increased in intensity or that he was letting out a silent fart.
Meanwhile Uday Trump is showing off his ‘Christian’ credentials with the Crusader helmet design on his gun.


TYT story on this:


trump junior is a horrible person and seemingly hanging out with other terrible people, but i don't think modern "identity" presentations of the crusades are in the best interest of society and information. i imagine all you "lesser of two evils" people agree christian imperialism is slightly better than the ottoman empire.
 


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