paulfromcamden
Baffled
Not disagreeing at all but it's got me wondering whose artistic intent - I get the impression Rudy Van Gelder made records the way Rudy Van Gelder thought they should sound.
Vinyl prices
- Thread starter matt j
- Start date
Not disagreeing at all but it's got me wondering whose artistic intent - I get the impression Rudy Van Gelder made records the way Rudy Van Gelder thought they should sound.
Tony L
Administrator
Absolutely, and Blue Note, Impulse, Riverside etc recognised his skill and selected him to do it, and artists queued up to record there. There is something remarkably special about those records. Same in UK rock and pop with George ‘Porky’ Peckham. He worked magic IMHO. Mastering is an art almost as much as recording/producing. I could blather on about this at some length as I’ve had records cut, but basically there are artistic decisions to be made at every stage of the process and it is wrong to assume what ended up on the master is an absolute. The final mastering, i.e. what the punter gets to hear, can make of break things.
I’m obviously in a good position as a record dealer as I have over the years got to A B countless cuts. I would strongly advise people to have a go. Think of a fairly old record you really like that has been reissued countless times over the years, though obviously not one of value, ideally something you can find in the £1 bins, and go and buy as many copies as you can find. Try and get a first press from country of origin, a few international market copies, some later reissues etc. Even listen to the difference between a A1 matrix and an A2, A3 etc from the same country. You will unquestionably hear differences, and you will form preferences. Obviously nothing is set in stone and for that particular title you may prefer an outlier, but there is nothing wrong in that. It will certainly prove that mastering is a very significant factor.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
Yep, there are a few Bobby Timmons LPs where I have the Japanese reissue as well as the US or UK original and as you say, the difference can be quite marked in some cases. My preference tends to be for the originals that sound less 'polite' to me - though I'm sure there's a degree of confirmation bias also at work.
Tony L
Administrator
Yes, this is a distinct trend IME. The originals often have a real edge, punch and conviction, whereas many reissues seem to be mastered in a very timid, safe and conservative way. All the aggression smoothed out, anything that might make you jump pulled back etc. The original intent diluted. Fancy audiophile reissues can be amongst the worst for this too sadly. Too much lushness, too much beauty, not enough meaning.
Amber Audio
This is the Day
Aye, I have a watchlist on Discogs with the aim of finding Mint vinyl but damage to the cover, some very expensive LPs go for reasonable money and end of day it’s the LP pressing/mastering I want. Can't take them with you when it’s time to shuffle so aim to enjoy the best sounding versions of my fave LPs now
Tony L
Administrator
Aye, I have a watchlist on Discogs with the aim of finding Mint vinyl but damage to the cover, some very expensive LPs go for reasonable money and end of day it’s the LP pressing/mastering I want. Can't take them with you when it’s time to shuffle so aim to enjoy the best sounding versions of my fave LPs now
With some rare titles I’ll buy a trashed copy out of a pound bin to get a good cover or inner. I’m sufficiently obsessive to rebuild stuff correctly, i.e. exactly right cover for that issue etc. I have many albums I’ve assembled a copy out of multiple copies, I’ve certainly posted about my EX to NM 1st press of Electric Warrior; that was four copies, one for the record, the cover, the inner and the poster. It didn’t actually cost much to do as I did it over 20 years ago, I think I paid £15 for the record, no more than a fiver for any other part, and it’s a £400-500 album now! Plenty more I’ve built in a similar way. I do actually have a stash of covers and printed inners as when anything badly damaged/scratched comes in with a collection I’ll asset strip it in case that can help build a better copy later. It means I can then buy a good copy with sticker damage, writing or whatever and just bin the bad sleeve.
Amber Audio
This is the Day
I do similar but only for The The/Matt J stuff, they have their own storage unit
fegs
pfm Member
I do similar but only for The The/Matt J stuff, they have their own storage unit
details please?
Amber Audio
This is the Day
I like to keep all the vinyl I have from them separate and have a small storage cube in my office. Don’t have a complete collection but do have most of the stuff up to late 90’s. Have all of the available vinyl LPs inc SM box set, torture sleeve, most of the 12” inc a couple boxes with posters, cards, badges and most of the EPs. Have ripped all the CD’s so they are boxed away. Follow a few other bands and have full collections of the LPs but Matt J is the only one I’ve collected all the 12” and EPs for. Was never big on 7” so only have a bunch of Skids singles no The The at all.details please?
fegs
pfm Member
Thanks, funnily enough I'm the same regarding the 7" stuff and The Skids stuff was one of the very few bands I bought and still have every single. They really were worth collecting, Circus Games fold out poster, Woman in Winter comic book and numerous gatefold 2 x 7"
I had a fair bit of The The collectible stuff, sold a lot of it years ago (massive regret) I one with a stencil (something off Infected I think?) and a couple of box sets from the Mindbomb singles.
Amber Audio
This is the Day
These boxes?
Amber Audio
This is the Day
Swapped them for the first Dollar LP, obvs I had to add a couple quid to seal the deal
fegs
pfm Member
These boxes?
The very ones
I know where mine are as I sold them a mate, I need to try and get them back somehow
Amber Audio
This is the Day
There are a few nice The The 12" but not a massive amount of really collectable stuff, wish he'd carried on a few years longer and got all the albums he has in him released. Here's a pic disk.
Tony L
Administrator
The original non-censored picture sleeve of the Infected 12” is worth cash (the first cover variant of the Burning Blue Soul album even more so). I’ve not got either sadly, my Infected is cool though as it is the double pack with the Soul Mining remix 12”. I had a look at discogs and the limited edition of Soul Mining with the Perfect 12” is climbing in value now too, and that’s one I do have. I didn’t stick around too long so Mind Bomb with the poster is the latest thing I have. My rarest item, though not really valuable, is a white label test pressing of the Uncertain Smile 12”. As for 7” singles, which I don’t usually buy, I would recommend hunting down Uncertain Smile as it is a very different mix to the 12” or album and I really like it. I haven’t heard it for years though as, like the rest of my 7”, it is in a big flight-case that I use as a TV stand and I can’t be bothered moving everything to get to it!
PS CD buyers should ignore the remasters and go for the original issue CDs, they are just way better IMHO.
eevo1969
pfm Member
“A Porky Prime Cut”?
Tony L
Administrator
Yes, and they are almost always the best copy of a given UK title to my ears. I was lucky enough to have a 12” cut by him and it sounds better than a straight master copy to my ears, he understood exactly what was needed and did it.