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Vintage Tube Pre-amp for 78s

S

selfdivider

Member
First time really dipping my toe in the waters of vintage gear. The reason: I just inherited a nice chunk of 78s, most of them rare piano albums. I was poking my head here & there and received some recommendations:

McIntosh C-8 or C-20
Scott 130
HK Citation I

Haven't heard any of these, and I figure it won't be easy to audition, so I'd love your input on this, comparative pros vs. cons on these equipments, additional recommendations, etc.

Thank you!
 
All three do, and not just some preset curves but I think actual separate bass and treble turnovers, much more useful*. I've never heard any of them - they could be great or they could be soso, you'll pay collectors prices for them though. Hen's teeth in the UK and very collectable in the US. The C20 is a beautiful looking thing.

There are cheaper ways of doing it though, of that I'm sure, though perhaps not quite so cool as a Mcintosh C20.

*Except checking on it the Scott, which has 5 presets plus RIAA - still better than just the one or two.
 
I don't know any of them but I do own two Mac tuners and a MPI - the maximum performance indicator. I have also owned a couple of tuners and a pair of 75 mono's. So I am familiar with the quality of their products and would gravitate towards them given the choice.

Another point - McIntosh do service all equipment they have ever made.
 
It seems that C8 is the oldest, but most customizable when it comes to EQs. One minus is that you need to source the power from an external Mac power amp, i.e. MC30, MC40, MC60... or a D-8 power supply. The C-20 really is pretty... I find it strikingly beautiful.

I'm in the States, so it's a bit easier to find these preamps, I guess... from what I hear, the C-20 fetches more bux than C-8 not because it sounds better (from all accounts, they perform at the same level sonically) but it's a stereo pre-amp; C-8 is mono and you'd have to stack it with C-8S in order to run it in stereo config...
 
If it had to be one of these I think just based on looks and features and general usability, I'd have the C20. If you wants to dip your toe, TDL Tech do a phono pre with adjustable curves for about $280*. Then you would need something that'll play 78s - a Lenco may be your best bet - and a 78 stylus - the old GE VR II cartridge is the one that gets all the praise and I think are reasonably easy to find second hand and the stli can still be had. Otherwise modern ones can be had from Ortofon, Grado and Shure. I've been getting some good results with an Ortofon.

*or if you want to just try it without a special preamp there is some free software that will allow you take something recorded with RIAA and then re EQ to any other curve. Not so convenient but useful to see how much difference the right curve can make.
 
Good haul getting hold of the 78s, I now have almost 1,000 and some really great stuff too. There's plenty on the web about 78 replay, but here's a few guidelines I have found useful...
  • Use a 78 specific stylus - modern styli are just far too small and sound like cr*p as well as potentially damaging the wider groove
  • Use a stereo cartridge not mono - that way if one side of the groove is more damaged than the other you can select the better signal with the balance pot.
  • There is no such thing as a 78 - most vary in the actual speed and so a turntable with decent speed adjustment is absolutely necessary for best results
  • 78s did not use standard equalization, each recording company used their own, so a 78 phono preamp with adjustable curves is a necessity. I use the TDL Tech device mentioned above.
  • Be careful how you clean them - 78s need different treatment to LP.

Search the TDL Tech site - there's a ton of info and good guidance there.

But done properly 78s can be enormously musically satisfying - if not a little tedious having to change discs every 2-3 minutes!
 
neiljadman said:
[*]Use a stereo cartridge not mono - that way if one side of the groove is more damaged than the other you can select the better signal with the balance pot.
Click to expand...

This one may be a little contentious. I've been using a stereo cartridge with a 78 tip that has no (or very little) vertical compliance. I get a stereo signal, which is handy if you take it into the computer and want to do a restoration, and no doubt could be used to seek out the least damaged groove wall (The higher up TDL unit has a blend knob which allows you to adjust what proportion of the mono output comes from which wall). The lack of vertical compliance zaps an awful lot of the noise you would get if the cartridge were picking up all the vertical movements. It's possible that stereo cartridges with normal vertical compliance and 78 tips could be noisy.

It's also worth pointing out that a lot of mono maniacs swear by the real deal mono cartridge as sounding a lot more solid, authentic and ballsy.
 
Quick related question:

I've always quite fancied a Technics SL1200mk4 not least because it has a 78 setting. It sounds like the pitch control and (perhaps) the detachable headshell could also be handy for 78 playback.

Any reason it might not be suitable?
 
No reason at all. It'll be fine and if it comes with an Ortofon DJ cart (and a lot of used ones will), the OM78 stylus will fit.
 
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