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Vibration Control - everything except turntables

Discussion in 'audio' started by Darren, Oct 19, 2021.

  1. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Pending

    Yes, I used to think acrylic didn't have a characteristic sound, but that was comparing it to metal, glass or wood. It doesn't ring or have a discernible note when struck, but it still affects the sound in a way which, once you're attuned to it, is indeed characteristic. I have an acrylic frame with all equipment-contacting bars and levels made from, or coated with, PEEK. And PEEK isolating cones are very effective too.

    Interesting tale: the Reflex block was originally designed with metal screws to hold it together, but sounded better without. Nylon screws were used, which sounded better, but lacked tensile strength. PEEK was chosen initially for its physical strength, but it was only when the improvement in SQ over nylon was way more than expected, that further investigations began.

    You do need to take care when polishing, silicone polish is a no-no on acrylic - cracks everywhere!
    Miss Ariel and Frizzy like this.
  2. awkwardbydesign

    awkwardbydesign Officially Awesome

    I think this is the most important thing. Measurements are good, if you want to design, modify, repair or understand what is happening. I have to use them, as I build and test stuff, but ultimately I care about how it sounds, and the pleasure it brings.
    Frizzy and Sue Pertwee-Tyr like this.
  3. Darren L

    Darren L pfm Member

    I was quite surprised at the time, I really only tried them under the amp as they didn't fit under the CD player (anymore) or tape deck (too tall)
  4. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Pending

    It gets really weird when you discover that it also works under mains blocks...
    Miss Ariel likes this.
  5. awkwardbydesign

    awkwardbydesign Officially Awesome

    Frizzy likes this.
  6. awkwardbydesign

    awkwardbydesign Officially Awesome

    PEEK cable lifters anyone? :D
  7. Frizzy

    Frizzy Liberal anarchist

    I gave some musicworks speaker plats with peek bars to a pinky/wammer I’d sold musicworks rack too, must find out how he got on, the peek bars were seriously pricey upgrade. Let me know if you are reading this.
    I find most isolation methods don’t mix, so I have stillpoints from speaker to turntable and all in between.
    musicworks again sounded best in context of full rig having a cumulative effect, adding spikes in place of peek cones was orrible.
    Re spikes, some are better than others, I bought some “track Audio” spikes and was quite shocked at their positive effects under speakers, again expensive materials and craft are evident, but even this spike sceptic was impressed.
    Miss Ariel and Del monaco like this.
  8. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Pending

    I agree, particularly with the highlighted bit. I remember Roy Gregory used to get some stick for advocating a 'cable loom' all from the same manufacturer, and ideally from the same range within that manufacturer's product ranges. I think the idea is that different manufacturers have different views on what is important, so if you mix and match, you may find the various makers' different priorities working against each other in some cases. So if one brand is big on tonality and timbral detail but another brand is prepared to trade some timbral detail for better coherence or timing, then if you mix these, you'll not realise the full benefits of either.

    I think the same is true of supports and tables. If some supports work on isolation, where others work on dissipating waste energy, then mixing and matching is fraught with potential gotchas.
    Miss Ariel, notevenclose and Frizzy like this.
  9. jobseeker

    jobseeker pfm Member

    I’ve only just discovered the magnetic feet from Audio Physic, whilst auditioning a pair of their speakers. Strong opposing magnets that ‘levitate’ whatever they are supporting. They fit most anything. At a price.
  10. Cappuccino

    Cappuccino pfm Member

    Townshend platforms under speakers do the job nicely. Anyone tried the springs under their equipment. Really like the look of his rack - ooh err vicar.
    Miss Ariel likes this.
  11. Linus

    Linus pfm Member

    I wonder of anyone has tried isolation feet of some kind under Shahinian Oblisk’s. I have the casters they came with but imagine there might be a better option?
  12. Tigerjones

    Tigerjones Bagpuss

    I’m sure Dick wouldn’t have used castors if they were audibly poorer than other methods.
  13. Frizzy

    Frizzy Liberal anarchist

    I tried the magnetic lifters? I felt they isolated the kit from rack or floor, depending on use, but didn’t drain energy in manner of systems I prefer (hrs,stillpoints) also speakers were liable to go flying if nudged.
    RDC cones and cups were effective but left a somewhat dead feel to the music, it sounded to my ears overdamped at certain frequencies, esp upper mid bass.
    Tried Tortlyte , ok but IKEA lack? cheaper and better.
    I liked Hutter , simple straightforward uncoloured, I had double rack sat on 150lb slab of granite bonded to a single piece of 2in thick of beech (diff to find single piece big enuf) and two 15mm layers of acrylic, all bonded with three different resin/glues, sat on top of four cerabase. It was my journey into using mass/composite damping. What I found out was that adding that much mass to a room distorts sonics, almost black hole like. Felt in end that, that much mass stored energy releasing it out of sync with speakers.
    When I get a idea I follow it thru like a man possessed, ocd takes control and I keep going till satisfied I’ve been through all options possible, or maxed out the ways of using whatever method I’m trying out. All or nothing!
    That pretty much describes many of my beliefs.
    I’ve now been using stillpoints old and new for almost twenty years so I’ve probably settled on them,(can’t afford to do anything else) I still use the first cone I bought,and it is compatible with new rack kit, which for me is a major plus.
    In the same way I like kondo cables and Oyaide connectors. I find these brands to be generally as close as I’ve got to universally useful, insofar as these are sonically viable and musically rewarding in every system I’ve had. Yes not cheap, but it means less changing of kit as the infrastructure (cables, mains, tables) doesn’t change radically, just gets occasional updates, ie usb cable, or power supply for switch. Also these brands tend to have a fairly fixed product lineup, not endless revisions, kondo have altered cables once in 20+years, stillponts only brought out mark two ultras after twelve years, Oyaide only changed copper formula in thirty years only once when foundry moved abroad.
    Of course this is all opinion not fact, but like many self righteous audiophiles and motorists I probably think my hearing/driving skills are better than average.
    But the reality is prob very different.
    Sue Pertwee-Tyr likes this.
  14. Linus

    Linus pfm Member

    I don’t mean to imply any criticism of Dick Shahinian and his design acumen. Still the Obs were a 1970’s design (though updated)and anti-vibration techniques were not utilized as much as they would be. As well many designers are less concerned with those parameters. Think of Alan Shaw and some of his comments regarding stands for Harbeth’s let alone his views on amplification..
    Sue Pertwee-Tyr likes this.
  15. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig ^'- -'^

    You're clearly not running a turntable? ;0)

    I some ways it's pointless debating it. Try things yourself and form your own opinions. If you don't believe vibration makes any difference because you worked it out on paper, fine, you're free to believe that. If not, just get some stuff and experiment.

    I remember talking to Robert Ritchie many years ago about this and he said that in the early days they experimented with loads of things under the LP12. Piles of cassette boxes, whatever they could think of. This was before dedicated Hi-Fi supports were a thing and he said everything sounded different.

    And I agree with Ryder. I don't know why but digital kit does respond to what it is sitting on as do amplifiers to a lesser extent. Speakers are the most sensitive, then turntables, both are a long way in front. Then CD players, other digital then amps.

    But to consider it only in terms of isolation is missing something. Or even to assume that all components are responding to the same things. I can play a certain Gorillaz track and if I play it loud enough the CD player skips! Turn it down, plays, turn it up, skips. You can feel the vibrations in the player. All logic says that must be really bad, so why does the Mana make it sound better? I don't know.

    So my take is don't think you know more than you do and experiment. Make your own mind up.
    Miss Ariel likes this.
  16. Frizzy

    Frizzy Liberal anarchist

    Mana is a interesting anomaly, all that raw iron and crude spikes should sound awful, but it works.
    I think of it more like a tuning fork,initially designed and tuned to solve issues with a single known source (lp12) and electronics , naim.
    I gather it’s makers were bikers who used to build racing gearboxes, they used stethoscopes to listen and tune running gearboxes and used same skills to build and tune mana frames. A purely analogue solution for a analogue problem.
    lambo, Mr Pig, Darren and 1 other person like this.
  17. panditr

    panditr pfm Member

    Has anyone tried putting floor standing speakers on cork sheets? I have seen a number of cork+rubber sandwich pads which should do a pretty good job of isolation atleast in theory...
    Del monaco likes this.
  18. sonddek

    sonddek Trade: SUPATRAC

    I have several turntables, which I think it is fair to say are an order of magnitude more sensitive to support vibration than other hifi equipment. I sit them on slightly inflated bicycle inner tubes. It's cheap and very effective. It would cost so little to try this under your equipment that it wouldn't matter if it's an audible improvement or not.
  19. Fergus

    Fergus pfm Member

    When Townshend Audio brought out the original 3D Seismic Sink I bought one. My purchase was based on that as it was primarily made to use under disco turntables in a “hostile” environment so the domestic setting would pose less issues though I did live in a flat on a main road with lots of passing traffic. It worked very well and still does but as you get older lifting the component off and on to top up the air in the bladders becomes a faff. Well worth experimenting with an inner tube for fun.
    Darren likes this.
  20. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig ^'- -'^

    And it doesn't sound like it should. It weighs a ton but sounds like a lightweight stand.

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