Verve Acoustic Sounds Series Reissues
- Thread starter poco a poco
- Start date
poco a poco
I'm Jim
I'm more annoyed that post release that Coltrane's Ballads that I did not pre order (£35) has gone up to over £40 now, was £44 so I'm waiting a bit to see if drops a bit more.
Tony L
Administrator
Seems like Ballads is gone most places now. Any idea on the pressing numbers on these things? Certainly not numbered but I’m curious if it is a set x thousand world wide or if they repress as many as they can sell? I noticed one that came today (can’t remember which) had an A-2 matrix, but that might just be that the first lacquer was rejected.
Stunsworth
pfm Member
You can track Amazon prices on this website by pasting the Amazon URL in the Find Amazon Products box. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem to work with items that haven’t been released...
camelcamelcamel (dot) com
camelcamelcamel (dot) com
Stunsworth
pfm Member
No problem Tony, I only use the site for price checking.
poco a poco
I'm Jim
Not sure about these Verve reissues, but when the Tone Poets started with Chick Corea NHSNHS and Wayne Shorter Etcetera they only reputed only pressed 500 of each.They grossly underestimated the demand at the issue price (less still in the States, usually under $30) and had to repress these. Etcetera twice I believe and this is again pretty much sold out again and only has not been repressed because of the pressing backlog due to the initial covid lockdown at RTI. I expect Verve have pressed more as the first two still seem available, but have still under the demand and popularity of the Coltrane releases.
Tony L
Administrator
Interesting. I’m pretty sure it was the Chick Corea where I saw an A2 matrix so that would explain it, 500 of those would be long gone pretty much immediately I’d have thought. I was guessing these as issues of say 5000, but as I say I have no real idea just how popular in sales terms good reissues of classic jazz titles are. I bet the ALS will sell in shed loads.
I can never figure out how popular jazz is, e.g. the beautiful signed Ron Carter RSD album seemed to be around for weeks after my absolute panic to get a copy on the day and that was a global issue of 1999, yet I couldn’t get a limited blue vinyl copy of the Blue Note Re:Imagined album on day of issue (it is very good, I slummed it with the CD instead, which actually sounds great). A lot of the cool new That London scene stuff sells out pretty fast in limited editions of 500-1000 or so. I’m learning one needs to be pretty fast to snag the limited stuff there. I’m setup with email notification with a lot of it now.
I can never figure out how popular jazz is, e.g. the beautiful signed Ron Carter RSD album seemed to be around for weeks after my absolute panic to get a copy on the day and that was a global issue of 1999, yet I couldn’t get a limited blue vinyl copy of the Blue Note Re:Imagined album on day of issue (it is very good, I slummed it with the CD instead, which actually sounds great). A lot of the cool new That London scene stuff sells out pretty fast in limited editions of 500-1000 or so. I’m learning one needs to be pretty fast to snag the limited stuff there. I’m setup with email notification with a lot of it now.
poco a poco
I'm Jim
There certainly seems to be one of the periodic resurgences of interest in Jazz fairly recently helping push sales a bit. When Music Matters started (Around 2006) initially subscription only, they only pressed a few more than the numbers of subscribers, again around a pressing of 500 each. Admittedly these sold at a higher price than Tone Poets, Verve etc due to the licensing fees, but quite a few issued did not make sales beyond the first pressing run for years. Only recently have they started to sell again at much higher prices still and some are now fully out of print due to the permitted number under each license (thought to be only 2,500) being filled. Some AP Jazz reissues that also did not resell well initially have now gone OOP.
RickyC6
Infuriate the frog-men
Welcome! Oh we all said that about not buying them all!
Tony L
Administrator
FWIW I bet if you bought it, didn’t like it compared to your Japanese copy, then sitting on it for five years would turn a profit! It will almost certainly do better than Brexit-£s sitting in the bank.
PS I don’t think I have any VIM pressings, it’s the 1980 one with the dark MCA label? I’d expect it to be pretty good as Japanese pressings almost always are. If my ‘67 Japanese King pressing was mint I don’t know which I’d have preferred.
Seanm
pfm Member
Cheers, good point. Re VIM, yes they’re the ones. I have quite a lot of them - affordable and consistently excellent.
My ALS arrived yesterday. I've been slumming it with a CD copy waiting for the day when a good affordable pressing would be issued. Unfortunately the idiot delivery person dropped it over my 6 foot fence causing unacceptable damage to one corner of the sleeve. Now waiting for the replacement...
Replacement arrived yesterday... dropped over the fence again! Luckily the contents survived undamaged this time. Have only listened to side 1 so far but it's sounding nice. More surface noise in the silent parts than I usually hear on 'audiophile' vinyl though. Will listen to side 2 on my other system to see if the surface noise persists, havn't given it a wet clean yet either so that might help.
poco a poco
I'm Jim
I had mentioned earlier in this thread that there was not many in this first batch I intended to get as I had original or good earlier pressings or was not attracted by the selection. I thought I might get the Coltrane Ballads as my UK original was a Mono. This one has remained stubbornly above £40 though, perhaps they just pressed less of this than ALS? So in the end as I got it for a good price I bought a copy of ALS to compare with my UK original.
I have had it for a couple of weeks and done a few comparisons. It is an excellent reissue nice flat and very quiet pressing. In comparison I am pretty much pushed to tell the difference between it and my original, on my fairly high res. system. To some extent you would hope and expect this if the mastering engineer does not try to reinterpret the master tape, as the UK copy master was used for both these releases. I surprised how good and how quiet my original still sounds after around 50 years of fairly regular playing. A good test for this is Jimmy Garrison's Bass solo around the dividing band on side one, where he plays with against a silent background except for a little reverb and tape hiss. The noise level is a little blacker on the reissue, but not by much, both are very good.
The levels are pretty much the same so I had no need to match these. There are a few very minor differences if I listen very carefully, perhaps from mastering choices or possibly some wear (very little I think) on my copy. Both have excellent sound staging and focus. My original seems just a hint 'brighter' with a bit more presence on Coltrane although he is well in front of my left-hand speaker on both, but the reissue has just a little more depth and detail. McCoy Tyner's piano perhaps sounds a little clearer and separated on the reissue? Again both are excellent. There is a bit more bass on the reissue, both seem go down to the same extent, there is just a little more of it. I didn't adjust for any difference in VTA if you believe that makes a difference. I have on the fly VTA on one arm, but this holds my mono cartridge and on the SME V it is more of a hassle to change. I did set the Cadenza Bronze up between 140's and 180's as near as possible when I installed it though. I think it is more likely there is more bass on the master tape and this would equate with current mastering engineers thinking that modern playback systems don't need this rolled off so much. I have noticed this on some of the Tone Poets, as Joe Harley suggests is the case, where I have good early copies to compare.
All this is only when you try to analyse the sound quality it doesn't seem to matter, at least to me, when I just listen to the music as it is not that significant.
I have three of these Verve reissues now. The Armstrong / Peterson's problems were just due to the original recording. I also have the Nina Simone - Pastel Blues that is supberb. So I really pleased with the high quality of these reissues. I will end up getting the Stereo of Ballads as well. I just hope they make some more adventurous choices for reissue in future.
I have had it for a couple of weeks and done a few comparisons. It is an excellent reissue nice flat and very quiet pressing. In comparison I am pretty much pushed to tell the difference between it and my original, on my fairly high res. system. To some extent you would hope and expect this if the mastering engineer does not try to reinterpret the master tape, as the UK copy master was used for both these releases. I surprised how good and how quiet my original still sounds after around 50 years of fairly regular playing. A good test for this is Jimmy Garrison's Bass solo around the dividing band on side one, where he plays with against a silent background except for a little reverb and tape hiss. The noise level is a little blacker on the reissue, but not by much, both are very good.
The levels are pretty much the same so I had no need to match these. There are a few very minor differences if I listen very carefully, perhaps from mastering choices or possibly some wear (very little I think) on my copy. Both have excellent sound staging and focus. My original seems just a hint 'brighter' with a bit more presence on Coltrane although he is well in front of my left-hand speaker on both, but the reissue has just a little more depth and detail. McCoy Tyner's piano perhaps sounds a little clearer and separated on the reissue? Again both are excellent. There is a bit more bass on the reissue, both seem go down to the same extent, there is just a little more of it. I didn't adjust for any difference in VTA if you believe that makes a difference. I have on the fly VTA on one arm, but this holds my mono cartridge and on the SME V it is more of a hassle to change. I did set the Cadenza Bronze up between 140's and 180's as near as possible when I installed it though. I think it is more likely there is more bass on the master tape and this would equate with current mastering engineers thinking that modern playback systems don't need this rolled off so much. I have noticed this on some of the Tone Poets, as Joe Harley suggests is the case, where I have good early copies to compare.
All this is only when you try to analyse the sound quality it doesn't seem to matter, at least to me, when I just listen to the music as it is not that significant.
I have three of these Verve reissues now. The Armstrong / Peterson's problems were just due to the original recording. I also have the Nina Simone - Pastel Blues that is supberb. So I really pleased with the high quality of these reissues. I will end up getting the Stereo of Ballads as well. I just hope they make some more adventurous choices for reissue in future.
joe9407
actress/activist
My copy arrived a few days ago and I just played it: very, very nice! Dead flat, quiet, dynamic (a few parts startled me, in fact), and a nice glossy jacket. Awesome.
Not sure if you've seen this, Tony, but Michael Fremer compared the reissue with his US original and thinks the reissue is vastly better.
Tony L
Administrator
Yes, I’ve read that, but whilst I really like the guy I’m certainly not always on the same page with him sonically (even less so with the bloke from In Groove records who does comparative reviews on YouTube, my guess is I’d find his system very, very bright!).
To my mind MF often applies ‘hi-fi thinking’ and misses a lot of decisions I view as ‘artistic intent’. This is certainly true with say the original RVG cuts. I love the way RVG sticks Coltrane so forward, gets his horn to really bark at you with a true spiritual and emotional aggression. Fremer tends to focus on bass cut and less sparkle to the drum kit metalwork etc. By saying that I’m generalising from other records I know and have compared myself, and sadly I’ve never heard an RVG stamped ALS (I do have Ballads though, and that sounds incredible even though my copy is pretty rough). I have certainly found myself disagreeing with MF on other Impulse titles and audiophile reissues I’ve directly compared. The Acoustic Sounds ALS is unquestionably superb though. One doesn’t need a comparator to know that!