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Ukraine V

Discussion in 'off topic' started by DimitryZ, Jun 29, 2022.

  1. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    Medvedev swings his nuclear cajoles. Ukraine is the aggressor against Russia and he’s openly stating that NATO’s self interest means it will not respond to a Russian nuclear strike on Ukraine while accusing Truss of being “completely ready to immediately begin an exchange of nuclear strikes with our country”.
    They’re getting desperate and I think capable of doing something crazy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...interrogated-in-russia?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


    “Imagine that Russia is forced to use the most formidable weapon against the Ukrainian regime, which has committed a large-scale act of aggression, which is dangerous for the very existence of our state. I believe that Nato will not directly intervene in the conflict even in this situation.

    After all, the security of Washington, London, and Brussels is much more important for the North Atlantic Alliance than the fate of Ukraine, which no one needs, even if it is abundantly supplied with various weapons”.
     
  2. sideshowbob

    sideshowbob Champagne fascia aficionado

    I'm very much looking forward to seeing Lavrov and Medvedev in particular swinging from lampposts.
     
  3. Richard Lines

    Richard Lines pfm Member

    I'd have to disagree - given climate changes impact on worldwide food production I'd argue Ukraine was critically important, indeed very critical.

    Mass starvation in parts of Africa or the prospect will drive peoples both north and south aways but more prominently northwards?

    Regards

    Richard
     
    Sue Pertwee-Tyr likes this.
  4. Richard Lines

    Richard Lines pfm Member

  5. Hook

    Hook Blackbeard's former bo'sun.

    If no one needs, then why has one invaded?

    If one believes that NATO will not respond to use of “most formidable weapon”, then one is very wrong.
     
  6. Suffolk Tony

    Suffolk Tony Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment.

    I watched poor old Stephen Sackur frustratingly trying to get some semblance of a productive interview with a member of the Russian State Duma, Evgeny Popov, this morning on Hard Talk (4.30am - I'm an early bird). A complete waste of time, the man just trotting out propaganda. One has to wonder if Popov actually believes that stuff.
     
  7. tones

    tones Tones deaf

    I can't help wondering whether it's time to call it quits. Yes, highly repugnant, I know, given the circumstances, but I have the impression than nobody is going to give the Ukranians the quantities and sorts of weaponry needed to retake all the lost territory - tanks, planes and the necessary logistical support to keep these complex systems in the field (I gather that such things spend much of their time getting fixed). Better to forgo the lost territories and use the money to build a new, vibrant Ukraine and watch the next door neighbours go green with envy as they're left behind? It goes without saying that the Ukrainian armed forces would be equipped with the biggest and best in Western equipment.
     
  8. wacko

    wacko pfm Member

    Now Dec just to get the picture clear is he swinging cajoles or cojones ?
     
  9. NeilR

    NeilR pfm Member

  10. DimitryZ

    DimitryZ pfm Member

    Referenda apparently a total success, with 96%-97% "voting" to join RF.

    Where is the 3%-4% who voted no, I ask?
     
  11. NeilR

    NeilR pfm Member

    This is when it starts to get deadly serious. I think the chances of a nuclear attack are becoming quite high.
     
  12. sean99

    sean99 pfm Member

    I think the most important requirement for starting peace negotiations is to be certain that Russia has been sufficiently hurt / damaged by this war that they will not think of doing the same within the next few decades. Unfortunately I don't think we're yet at that point.
     
    Richard Lines likes this.
  13. kensalriser

    kensalriser pfm Member

    Just because Russia says the captured land is now Russia doesn't really change anything in the real world. Everyone knows it's a pack of lies and if they wanted to use tactical nukes they could have used them before.

    The Kremlin is already backtracking fast on the conscription campaign - mistakes have been made and they will be rectified! Oh really! So all the local conscription centres got the orders totally wrong? I don't think so. They're doing what the Johnson gov excelled in - screaming handbrake turns when they miscalculate the ferocity of opposition. And now they've got themselves into a spiral of self-perpetuating bad choices where a bad choice is made and the solution to that bad choice is another bad choice that creates another problem. Now they've triggered a wave of internal protest that wasn't there before which will gather momentum unless severe repression is employed...which will foster further anti-regime sentiment. Putin is screwed. The only question is whether the regime can save itself by deposing him or the whole ship goes down followed by the break up of the Russian Federation.
     
    DimitryZ likes this.
  14. matt j

    matt j pfm Member

  15. tones

    tones Tones deaf

    En route to Siberia.
     
  16. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans

    It may do. Russia's deterrence doctrine allows first use if there is "aggression against the Russian Federation with the use of conventional weapons when the very existence of the state is in jeopardy." (https://sgp.fas.org/crs/nuke/R45861.pdf).

    The results of the referenda, hovered bogus that may be, now clearly place occupied territory within the Russian Federation. Any attempt to recapture them by the Ukrainian forces can now be considered (in the eyes of Russia and its allies) as an attack on the Russian Federation. I believe the reason the referenda were called so quickly is a desperate attempt to keep hold of the occupied lands following the failure of conventional forces in that endeavour.
     
  17. Bjork67

    Bjork67 pfm Member

    Putins had 2 3's a 15 in 21 and Ukraine has got a King and ace but his had 22 bottles of vodka mule and 8 lagers and his full of feck. His full of shit and give him it forcefully , god knows what the outcome but as Celine dion says Lets bomb.the **** outhecunt.
     
  18. gints

    gints pfm Member

    There is no point to speak about stopping from recapture because front line already is inside of Russia post referendum teritory.
     
  19. Suffolk Tony

    Suffolk Tony Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment.

  20. gints

    gints pfm Member

    Like it was for Russia enough with Crimea. Where do you think they will stop? There are big russian communities all over Europa, Germany probably biggest, and not even speaking about other direct neighbors.
     

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