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Ukraine V

Discussion in 'off topic' started by DimitryZ, Jun 29, 2022.

  1. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans

    And none of that imperialist Western bourgeois decadence, like food. :)

    [​IMG]
     
    Spraggons Den, klfrs and DimitryZ like this.
  2. dweezil

    dweezil pfm Member

    If he really is that bothered how about west from Moscow and south from Moscow?
     
  3. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans

    It would be quite easy. Simply reopen the trenches from '41.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    I’m sorry, but I’ve had this conversation so many times now, I’m not doing it again
     
  5. DimitryZ

    DimitryZ pfm Member

    For the record, I hope that people who respond "not sure" to the idea of a new Iron Curtain never gain power in the West.
     
  6. klfrs

    klfrs chill out

    When a country invaded by fascistic despot has been liberated it's usual for lots of celebration to commence.
    Hopefully those guilty of war crimes will face justice, and Russia will pay the costs of rebuilding what it has destroyed.
     
    TheDecameron and DimitryZ like this.
  7. Super Bigote

    Super Bigote pfm Member

    That'll be great. So nothing else will happen and Russia will become a good global citizen and vassal of US imperialism? Ukraine will be secure? They won't nuke us?
     
    Klassik likes this.
  8. DimitryZ

    DimitryZ pfm Member

    Russia's future is for Russia to decide. Leave them be.
     
    klfrs likes this.
  9. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    How would you manage the border between Ukraine and Russia once this is over? What would it look like? Open border? Closed border? How closed?
     
    Super Bigote likes this.
  10. klfrs

    klfrs chill out

    You are free to appease and wring your hands. Other lifestyles are available.
     
  11. DimitryZ

    DimitryZ pfm Member

    That's for the two countries to decide based on the state of relations between them.

    Why would you or I "manage" that? It's literally none of our business.

    I think you live in the UK? You should have your hands full with the NI border in a post-Brexit world.
     
  12. kensalriser

    kensalriser pfm Member

    Also, people trying to leave those countries would be shot, so fewer Eastern European immigrants. It's a win all round.
     
  13. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    You don’t want to answer, no problem
     
  14. DimitryZ

    DimitryZ pfm Member

    There is no relevant answer that I can supply, because that is entirely not up to me. My guess is while Putin is in power the border will be largely closed and militarized, like the FRG/GDR border of old or NK/SK DMZ now. If/when Russia chooses different leadership and path, that will probably change, but that's for the two countries to decide.

    Unlike sending weapons to Ukraine - as a citizen of my country I should and do have a firm position - because that is something that is at least theoretically involves my voice.
     
  15. Super Bigote

    Super Bigote pfm Member

    Obviously you have ducked the question. Why is that? Are you afraid?

    Here it is again.

     
    Klassik likes this.
  16. klfrs

    klfrs chill out


    Your questions imply you are afraid. I tend not to answer flawed or pointless questions.

    To your three -
    First - Loaded to 'have you stopped bashing the bishop?' level.
    Second - It seems likely a liberated Ukraine will be somewhat securer.
    Third - I'll wake my crystal ball from standby and report back in due course.
     
  17. russel

    russel ./_dazed_and_confused

    OK, just go back to saying how beastly the Tories are then.
     
  18. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    Thank you for a considered response. I agree there will have to be some sort of border and also agree that what that will look like cannot be answered here and now. Not sure why you objected to describing that border as a sort of iron curtain though, except that this time it might the West putting it up because this time it’s us that feels threatened. How we manage that feeling of threat will be critical going forward.

    Not sure your or my voice is going to influence the sending of arms to Ukraine. I was a little alarmed at the number of posts at the start of this thread that called for use of nuclear weapons, which was madness writ large but seemed to pass with a slight murmur of approval. Maybe it didn’t, but there was a silence. You say you have a firm position, mine is rather more flexible because I feel a nuclear war should be avoided. If not at all costs, then with a bloody good appraisal of what those costs will be
     
    Klassik likes this.
  19. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    The Tories are beastly.
     
  20. DimitryZ

    DimitryZ pfm Member

    Yes, countries have borders, with ease of transit dependent on relationships.

    Nuclear war should be avoided, which is why NATO isn't sending troops to Ukraine and they have ~two dozen HIMARS instead of five dozen.
     

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