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Ukraine V

Dimitry Z exactly shows the tragedy of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Not so easy to understand without a patient analysis, and not so different from my understanding of Germans as they invaded and terrorised Norway, where my my grandfather was an outlaw for eighteen months till May 8th 1945 for having the temerity of being a Norwegian patriot in the Resistance.

Anyone who has not faced this sort of thing can possibly understand the determination of a country like Ukraine. I have not lived this life, but my grandfather [whom I loved], explained it to me, and he respected rather than hated post 1945 Germans as a businessman, but he was terrified of the Russians as the REAL threat, even before Putin was a fairly hopeless spy operative in East Germany!

Anusbisgrau. I hope you never have to live under the true grip of a dictatorship. But if you do, you still stand a chance of being as firm a character as my late Norwegian grandfather.

Sincerely from George
 
DimitryZ said:
By the way, @anubisgrau original post about his grandfather's experience as a slave laborer in Germany and any references to it are being studiously erased by the moderator.

This is a forum for adults and @anubisgrau published it freely and quite proudly.

I believe it's an important detail from his past that sheds light on his current worldview - and something he elected to share with us.

I emplore the moderator not to be an arbiter of... propriety.
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It is the ad hom that was moderated.
 
TheDecameron said:
While he’s slowly turning Ukrainian cities into road gravel, he can deploy other means to extend his fascism into Georgia, Moldova and the rest. Belarus is sorted, Hungary too- unless Orban’s Damascene conversion can be believed.
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A Russian 'how to slowly subsume Belarus into Mother Russia' manual was recently leaked online. I guess these things help us "understand" the Russian position.
 
awkwardbydesign said:
Interesting indeed. I note that the idea of imperial powers having to lose a war to move on leaves out Britain "winning" a war, and that Germany should take the lead in a geopolitical Europe. That has a familiar ring to it.
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But Britain did lose an empire - the Empire was badly wounded by the First World War amd the Second finished it off. It, if course, didn't recognise it, until Suez rubbed its nose in it.
 
tones said:
But Britain did lose an empire - the Empire was badly wounded by the First World War amd the Second finished it off. It, if course, didn't recognise it, until Suez rubbed its nose in it.
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Exactly my point; it happened without them losing a war. Britain (at least on paper) "won" both wars.
 
awkwardbydesign said:
Britain (at least on paper) "won" both wars.
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Perhaps "on the winning side" would be better - had Hitler not made two massive errors (invading the Soviet Union and unnecessarily declaring war on the world's biggest industrial power), I'd hate to think what our world would now be like. I guess the common thread was that, "win" or lose, the UK was brought face to face with reality, a reality is sometimes seems to try to deny, as per the Brexit fiasco. As the article says, Putin has the power to "win", by simply moving the goalposts, as he has already done (from freeing the whole of Ukraine from "Nazis" to protecting the fine Russians of Donetsk and Lutansk from Ukrainian whatever). He might be able to say, as the article says, "NATO tried to invade and subjugate us through the back door of Ukraine - we stopped them dead", and a supine media and a substantial proportion of a gullible public will swallow it.
 
tones said:
But Britain did lose an empire - the Empire was badly wounded by the First World War amd the Second finished it off. It, if course, didn't recognise it, until Suez rubbed its nose in it.
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I’d put the emphasis on The Independence of India, but yes, I agree.
 
Having been muscled out of prisons by the Russian MoD, Prigozhin opens Wagner recruiting centers, many in schools and sport clubs. Original Russian announcement and Google translation.

https://t.me/concordgroup_official/574
Публикуем заявление Е.В. Пригожина:

«В 42 городах Российской Федерации открылись центры по набору в ЧВК «Вагнер». Туда идут новые бойцы, которые пойдут вместе с нами бок о бок защищать свою страну и свою семью. Делать свое общее будущее и защищать память о прошлом. Несмотря на колоссальное сопротивление ВСУ, мы будем идти вперед. Несмотря на палки в колесах, которые нам втыкаются на каждом шагу, мы преодолеем это вместе».

*Прикрепляем адреса центров

-----------------------------------------------------------
We publish the statement of E.V. Prigogin:

“In 42 cities of the Russian Federation, recruitment centers for PMC Wagner have opened. The new fighters will start there and will go with us side by side to defend their country and their families. To make our common future and protect the memory of the past. Despite the colossal resistance of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, we will move forward. Despite the sticks in the wheels that are stuck in our wheels at every step, we will overcome this together.”

* Attached are addresses of centers

-------------------------------------------------------------

I would describe PMC Wagner as a great pyramid scheme of death that makes great money for the owner!

And by "pyramid scheme" I don't mean the normal illegal financial kind, but a physical one - the next recruits will go into battle walking over the bodies of the earlier recruits.
 
tones said:
Interesting point of view in Der Spiegel:

https://www.spiegel.de/internationa...b4X8GquyeAc9&nlid=spiegel-international-21-00
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“The ratio of talk to tanks is very high.”

Thanks for sharing. I am very close to Germany both personally and professionally and appreciate the critical viewpoint of Germany that Snyder offers. My observations are that Germany is “asleep at the wheel” and I am speaking as much about its citizenry as its politicians. They seem very focused on meeting the economic challenges from this war and sustaining comfort but completely aloof as to doing what needs to be done to repel the Russians.
 
Plink said:
“The ratio of talk to tanks is very high.”

Thanks for sharing. I am very close to Germany both personally and professionally and appreciate the critical viewpoint of Germany that Snyder offers. My observations are that Germany is “asleep at the wheel” and I am speaking as much about its citizenry as its politicians. They seem very focused on meeting the economic challenges from this war and sustaining comfort but completely aloof as to doing what needs to be done to repel the Russians.
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That's really normal for Europe - countries that have other nations between them and Russia are probably correctly figuring that they will not be the ones where the next war will be (If Russia succeeds in chewing off a piece or whole of Ukraine).

In contrast, Poland is correctly making anti-tank defenses on their border with the Russian World. Moving to Abrams hardware also probably makes sense at this point for them, given Germany's obvious reluctance to commit and long history of Putin-fershteyn policies. The interviewer's questions themselves reveal how reluctant to do anything to stop Russian aggression they really are. At least they will give their three working tanks... I guess.

And all the western countries need to dust off and refresh their land warfare manuals. One of my professional apprentices is a younger analyst who was a tank commander 15-20 years ago in Iraq. He said that they trained them in old style tank warfare, but assured them it's just for show, they would be fighting totally different battles from now on.

But history has a strange way of repeating.
 
Plink said:
“The ratio of talk to tanks is very high.”

Thanks for sharing. I am very close to Germany both personally and professionally and appreciate the critical viewpoint of Germany that Snyder offers. My observations are that Germany is “asleep at the wheel” and I am speaking as much about its citizenry as its politicians. They seem very focused on meeting the economic challenges from this war and sustaining comfort but completely aloof as to doing what needs to be done to repel the Russians.
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Of course, everyone would prefer not to have to buy expensive toys for the military, and I think that Germany, like most other places, thought it no longer had to and was happy to spend the money on more useful things. Alas, this is not the case, and it looks as if Vegetius was right all those centuries ago ("If you want peace, prepare for war").
 
tones said:
Of course, everyone would prefer not to have to buy expensive toys for the military, and I think that Germany, like most other places, thought it no longer had to and was happy to spend the money on more useful things. Alas, this is not the case, and it looks as if Vegetius was right all those centuries ago ("If you want peace, prepare for war").
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Well, I have written before that if German population was committed to pacifism, perhaps it shouldn't have turned its' heavy industry into one of the world's biggest military suppliers.

Pull up your pants or take off your cross, as the gross Russian vernacular goes...
 
If I would be a German, I would probably more trust myself than Americans and Brits about my own interests.

As this war has showed so far very effectively.
 
anubisgrau said:
If I would be a German, I would probably more trust myself than Americans and Brits about my own interests.

As this war has showed so far very effectively.
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But since you are Serbian it's hard to trust yourself, since you won't even say what you want your own government to do.

Let's just say Germany doesn't have a great track record in determining its own best interest with respect to Russia in the last 100 plus years. Could be a long running coincidence, but...
 
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