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Ukraine IV

Discussion in 'off topic' started by -alan-, Apr 13, 2022.

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  1. anubisgrau

    anubisgrau pfm Member

    Well I hope Russia compensate them better than your country did in Yugoslavia. None of 528 confirmed civilian victims (and probably much more, why a Western version should be trusted) got a single penny.

    Are you trying to give me a lesson in googling?

    There was no "explanation" at all, at least not in my posts - China had provided a similar support to Yugoslav Army just as you're providing to Ukraine, lots of satellite data and corresponding info. The moment your planes would take off in Aviano air base, we had known it so what had been planned as a 3 day campaign ended in 78 days. Sadly, the NATO frustration with early results lead to deliberate civilian terror and murder, not any significantly less than in Ukraine nowadays. As for a particular case of F117 take down, I have seen the remains in the Aeronautical Museum Belgrade but don't forget they ain't complete - Chinese took what they were interested in. Such a brilliant, flagship piece of US military was soon withdrawn from production and the army as there was nothing secret about it anymore.
  2. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    They kill people then when the victims are counted publicity, the Russian invaders call that a provocation,

    It looks like the path is now set for Finland and Sweden to join NATO- another outcome created entirely by Putin which he’ll call ‘an unfriendly act’ in another twist of Orwellian language.
  3. ———-

    ———- Guest

    1. Kremenchuk bombing.

    The were two missiles. Hit place is marked with O. Place of explosion can be verified via lots of video online.
    Second map from Ze presentation in UN (it doesn't show strike on military plant).



    2. Grain stealing info from UN

    Question: Second question is on Ukraine. The Ukraine Foreign Minister [inaudible] said that Russia is allegedly stealing Ukrainian grain and must be investigated. Is the UN aware of such conduct of Russia in Ukraine?

    Spokesman (Stéphane Dujarric World Food Programme): We have seen… there were recent media reports. We are talking to our colleagues at WFP (World Food Programme), who would be in the lead. There is no… they have no way of verifying these allegations. I think WFP, as we all have, have been advocating for free movement of food from the Black Sea to ensure that the needs of people around the world are met, and that is what the Secretary‑General has been working towards.
  4. ———-

    ———- Guest

    v below you can see how DimitryZ grimaces
  5. DimitryZ

    DimitryZ pfm Member

    And that's why it was such a glorious Serbian victory - you brought down a mighty alien spaceship and sold its armor to the Chinese!

    But by the time of the Kosovo war I don't think there was much secret about the aircraft. They were also aerodynamically awkward, slow and really expensive to operate.

    However, I did see a pair of them practice touch and goes at the Holoman Air Force Base and they were fun to watch.
  6. DimitryZ

    DimitryZ pfm Member

    Man, self-sarcasm is your strength.

    1. Is Russia saying they accidentally bombed a mall? This says you guys admit to starting a fire in a "non-functioning shopping facility?"

    Keep in mind that your MoD statement that claimed the fire was started by secondary munitions detonations from a nearby arms factory they also hit was thoroughly debunked because, you guessed it... No secondary detonations. Not arms factory, either, this one makes road laying equipment. But they did repair three APCs in 2014, during the first Russian attack, which one can see on the web.

    2. As a beligerrent nation with control over Black Sea shipping lanes, it's incumbent on Russia to provide safe passage to and from Ukranian ports. Has you czar done that?
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2022
  7. Amber Audio

    Amber Audio This is the Day

    CCTV from a park near the Mall and Road Construction repair facility, shows the 2 missile hits and children running away

    CCTV of 1 Missile hitting

  8. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    Quibble, rub away at pieces of evidence here and pieces of evidence there, the summation of which is that Russia isn’t actually attacking Ukraine at all. The dead, the mutilated and the millions of homeless refugees are simply crisis actors directed by Mr. Actor President himself. And the objective? Like the shooting down of the Malaysian Airlines flight, the poisoning of Navalny, the Novichock and Polonium attacks in Britain- all fakes- provocations simply to make Russia look bad.
    Hook and kensalriser like this.
  9. laughingboy

    laughingboy pfm Member

    That's really weak, Dmitre. If you look at the 28 June picture with the yellow circle, it's not clear where that missile struck. It could have been in the yellow circle, but it could equally be true that the missile struck the edge of the shopping centre and the blast debris caused the damage within the yellow circle. So the yellow circle is, from a Russian viewpoint, the most favourable reading of the image.

    Point 1 - geography

    Anyway, even if you accept that the yellow circle is in the right place, you would have to deny the evidence of your own eyes to believe that the red circle in the wikimapia image is in the same place. It just isn't. The yellow circle encompasses three tracks that are shown on the wikimapia image as dotted white lines. The lowest of these runs below the Krememnchuk road machines plant, outside the area marked in solid yellow. The centre of the yellow circle is almost in line with this track. I'll repeat: this track does not enter the road machines plant.

    Russia's problem is that if it moved the red circle to the true site of the missile strike, it would overlap (or even centre on) the edge of the shopping mall.

    Point 2 - Russian ministry explanation

    Yesterday, you explained that (your words): "the detonation of ammunition stored in the hangar caused a fire in a nearby non-functioning shopping center, the Russian ministry reports."

    It is clear from the pictures that you have posted that this is not true. The damage to the shopping mall is not consistent with a fire that spread from a hangar, it is consistent with direct blast damage which resulted in a fire in the shopping mall (see 28 June picture, where there is evidence of charring in the right side of the shopping mall).

    So, your own evidence fails to support your explanations. What you have belched onto this thread, my friend, is pure propaganda.
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2022
    PsB, DimitryZ and palindrome like this.
  10. Barrymagrec

    Barrymagrec pfm Member

    I am increasingly wondering why pfm is hosting at least one and possibly two outright Russian propagandists.

    I am in favour of knowing the opposing views but the forum`s openness and fairness is being abused in my opinion.
  11. Kirk

    Kirk pfm Member

    Any hurricane maps?
  12. Kirk

    Kirk pfm Member

    Russia bombs a shopping mall.

    Turkey hugs Sweden and Finland.
    TheDecameron likes this.
  13. ———-

    ———- Guest

    I don't care if it weak or strong. I'm not here to defend Putin or Russian Military.
    My only point — your media tell the half true (manipulate), they try to shock with pictures and direct unverified speech. It's emotional fast food for quick judgments.

    I am sure that you will never admit the manipulativeness and one-sidedness of your media. So that was my point. I believe I illustrate it enough.

    Last post in this thread. Done.
  14. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr neither here nor there

    Hook and roman like this.
  15. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    I thought the cctv footage of the two young kids running for their lives from the Russian cruise missile strike was shocking enough thanks. This thread isn’t about verifying every Russian attack on the ukrainian people it’s about getting Russia out of Ukraine and stopping Russia killing any more Ukrainians. You appear preoccupied with minutiae- I wonder why?
    roman, ff1d1l and Sue Pertwee-Tyr like this.
  16. Amber Audio

    Amber Audio This is the Day

    Russia fired 2 anti ship missiles into the centre of Ukrainian Territory - think about that while you depart PFM, you won’t be missed and neither will your fellow countrymen when they eventually get kicked out of town.
  17. ff1d1l

    ff1d1l pfm Member

    Door, bang, arse, etc.
    Spraggons Den likes this.
  18. wacko

    wacko pfm Member

    I doubt it is much to do with that.
    Much more likely that Sweden and Finland have agreed to muzzle Kurdish activists. And agreed to supply weapons to Turkey.
  19. Bart

    Bart pfm Member

    Thank Christ for that.
    p.s. when you come back, as I’m sure you will, why not change your descriptor to Chief BS Propagandist to the Kremlin.
  20. Jim Audiomisc

    Jim Audiomisc pfm Member

    I suspect TonyL's view at present is that simply giving them enough rope allows them to hang themselves more and more blatently. But as per before - it does distract and dilute genuine discussions of the actual reality, etc... which serves them well enough if people get bored with having to point out the basics over and over again.

    When in the ed biz I sometimes encountered students who persistently misunderstood something despite repeated attempts to explain a mistake they were making. After a time I made it a rule to give up after three attempts as more was wasting my time and theirs. I've found this rule handy on usenet as well. :) People are in the end responsible for errors they make that mess up their own life. The worry is when it harms others.
    Plink likes this.
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