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Turntable weights/clamps

R

RoA

pfm Member
I would have thought that anything coupling the spindle/bearing/motor to the actual record can only induce more noise and vibration somewhat defeating the objective?

I get the idea of applying some damping to the record surface (rather than flattening it as tonearms are probably designed to track reasonable record unevenness) but shouldn't any gadget doing so be completely disconnected from the spindle?

If so wouldn't something like a puck of sorbotheane or similar with enough clearance to the spindle do a better job than clamps and weights?
 
There was the little device marketed as The Pig- a sold rubber dummy tit with had a cut out allowing it to fit over the spindle and press the record down. I use one on my Lp12
 
RoA said:
I would have thought that anything coupling the spindle/bearing/motor to the actual record can only induce more noise and vibration somewhat defeating the objective?

I get the idea of applying some damping to the record surface (rather than flattening it as tonearms are probably designed to track reasonable record unevenness) but shouldn't any gadget doing so be completely disconnected from the spindle?

If so wouldn't something like a puck of sorbotheane or similar with enough clearance to the spindle do a better job than clamps and weights?
Click to expand...

Good questions, and I've made the point about coupling bearing noise in the past. "Clamping" and "damping" aren't necessarily the same thing, although the fomer usually achieves the latter.

Also worth noting that, at least for manufacturers such as SME, the coupling point is probably diminished by very low bearing noise in the first place (-75dB or so?) and perhaps also by quite thick and inert platters. There is a small, but dectable improvement between a clamped and non-clamped SME20 IME.

There may also be differences depending on what mechanism is being used for the clamp I suppose.
 
Origin Live’s “Gravity One” puck is in fact very light weight (weirdly named) and worth looking into…albeit not cheap.
 
I've used an Audio Technica plonk-it-down weight on a Micro Seiki and the supplied screw down clamp and washer on the SME 20.
Gave up on both

Not because of
- bearing noise

But because of
- the annoyance of the extra manipulation
- sound quality; what I gained in terms of bass was at the expensive of the ebb and flow of the musical line
 
Goodness, that updated version of the Revolver Pig bears no resemblance to the original product. Penny for Roy Hall's thoughts?

FWIW, I use the Oyaide STB clamp & am happy with the results. No idea if it induces more noise/vibration etc, but to these ears it renders the presentation more natural...
 
Venus Isle said:
Goodness, that updated version of the Revolver Pig bears no resemblance to the original product. Penny for Roy Hall's thoughts?

FWIW, I use the Oyaide STB clamp & am happy with the results. No idea if it induces more noise/vibration etc, but to these ears it renders the presentation more natural...
Click to expand...

What is 'natural'?
 
RoA, the music seems to flow more with the addition of this clamp. It also has weights, which can be added or removed to "tune" the sound. I also use it in conjunction with their BR12 mat, which has also brought benefits. Worth doing a bit more reading, if you are inclined.

Sorry my words a bit generic or vague, audiophile vocab not really my strength.
 
To support the ‘It may be a more complex question than some suggest’ version….

As reported elsewhere, we fitted an SRM base to an Akkurate-ish LP12 with Kore and Lingo 4. It helped.

Next we tried various options for what goes under it - all on a Target shelf. The result was a small but definite WIN for the HRS record puck, which aims for anti-vibration. This seems to have been heresy to many, though I sympathise with those who argued that it isn’t what the suspension was designed to handle.

Later, I swapped the whole table for a heavier Stiletto with Skorpion base, Radikal and Keel. Repeated swaps back and forth showed that the puck still marginally improves the old LP12(esp at higher volumes), but has no audible effect at all on the Stiletto/ Skorpion/ Keel/ Radikal.

I have no idea why the puck worked with the old LP12, nor why we could not hear any similar effect with the Stiletto. All we can do is listen carefully, try a blind test that involves standing in front of the
TT, and then believe our ears.

If you found good results in your room on your LP12, I at least believe you -and am pleased you tried it and believed your ears.
 
vinylmonkey said:
Origin Live’s “Gravity One” puck is in fact very light weight (weirdly named) and worth looking into…albeit not cheap.
Click to expand...
I heard a demonstration of this at a Hi-Fi show in the Origin live room on one of their turntables from my personal request since I was thinking of buying one. I believe it was being demonstrated on one of their upper range turntables, possibly their best as the sound emanating from the speakers was rather grand.

So after about a 10min listen it was really difficult to discern whether it really made any difference at all. I thought I could hear a wider & more pronounced soundstage with perhaps a smidgen of improved dynamics but nothing else. Possibly all in the mind looking for something different in the sound. It certainly wasn't night & day.
 
RoA said:
I would have thought that anything coupling the spindle/bearing/motor to the actual record can only induce more noise and vibration somewhat defeating the objective?

I get the idea of applying some damping to the record surface (rather than flattening it as tonearms are probably designed to track reasonable record unevenness) but shouldn't any gadget doing so be completely disconnected from the spindle?

If so wouldn't something like a puck of sorbotheane or similar with enough clearance to the spindle do a better job than clamps and weights?
Click to expand...
Interesting you say this. It would seem as far as I know that Roksan & Vertere (same engineer) are the only company's that actually use a removable spindle top so the record does not touch the spindle whilst in play. I often wonder why this is not more universal? I guess you can replicate this type of engineering tho' to some extent with 45rpm singles which have removable middle inserts.
 
NickofWimbledon said:
To support the ‘It may be a more complex question than some suggest’ version….

As reported elsewhere, we fitted an SRM base to an Akkurate-ish LP12 with Kore and Lingo 4. It helped.

Next we tried various options for what goes under it - all on a Target shelf. The result was a small but definite WIN for the HRS record puck, which aims for anti-vibration. This seems to have been heresy to many, though I sympathise with those who argued that it isn’t what the suspension was designed to handle.
Click to expand...

Have one of these pucks which I bought for my LP12 in the last decade or two. I can confirm there was some difference (as one would expect for all that extra weight on a sprung deck) but can't really remember it's benefits. They were probably small/insignificant or *destroyed* something else in the process as no longer used. To be honest I think I was more concerned about all that extra weight pushing down on the bearing, shortening it's life & perhaps increasing the noise value of the bearing.
 
https://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m....2&highlight=KiK&search_url=/cgi/search.mpl&r=

Make your own - you'll need a small piece of silicon - 5cm x 5 cm x 1 mm thick and a big ss nut and hot glue. Punch or cut a hole the size of the spindle in the silicone piece and hot glue it to one side of the nut. Trim the silicone piece.

You don't need too much weight as it may have damaging effect on the bearing. Also, it is not cumbersome where you need to stop the platter to unscrew the clamp.

Cheers
m.html
 
After the recent post about record weights, and their sometimes (mostly) exorbitant prices, I thought I would make one.

I have never used a record weight/clamp before.
So far I haven’t noticed any improvement with 12” records, but with 7” Singles the weight seems to tighten up the sound, maybe ‘cleaner’ is a better word.
I will find time to test it further this week.

I used an old record, which I cut the labelled area out - this seems obvious as the disc has a spindle hole.
Next I glued a large metal washer to the vinyl disc, making sure the washer was centred - easily done by putting the disc on a turntable and slowly spinning it.

It cost nothing. I choose the weight around a bit of research into what was available commercially. The weight is to use on direct drive decks, but I will try it on my suspended chassis turntable as well and I didn’t want something too heavy. 186 grams was the eventual weight.

The L.P. spoiled was a Bing Crosby album. It is what he would have wanted…


IMG-1392.jpg
 
Big Tabs said:
After the recent post about record weights, and their sometimes (mostly) exorbitant prices, I thought I would make one.

I have never used a record weight/clamp before.
So far I haven’t noticed any improvement with 12” records, but with 7” Singles the weight seems to tighten up the sound, maybe ‘cleaner’ is a better word.
I will find time to test it further this week.

I used an old record, which I cut the labelled area out - this seems obvious as the disc has a spindle hole.
Next I glued a large metal washer to the vinyl disc, making sure the washer was centred - easily done by putting the disc on a turntable and slowly spinning it.
Click to expand...

Guess to be sure that it was centered correctly the washer was glued to the vinyl after centering without removing the washers?
 
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