I wonder what weighs less. A P10 or the suspended part of an LP12.
Turntable upgrade. Rega P3 to P6 or to Origin Live Aurora/Silver tonearm?
- Thread starter Peter McDermott
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- origin live rega turntable
I wonder what weighs less. A P10 or the suspended part of an LP12.
Darren L
Egalitarian
@Mr Pig I'm not surprised the Exact performed the best being as it's from the same company, I'm a bit surprised that they are all 'budget' cartridges in the context of the turntable and tonearm. I was half expecting a list of £1k + MCs, Hana, Lyra, AT, Benz, Zyx etc, not that there's anything wrong with MM cartridges. Did you bother shimming the tonearm to achieve the correct VTA for each or perhaps they're all compatible with Rega height ?
It's easy to look for excuses but it won't wash. A fundamentally good turntable shouldn't need a crazy expensive cartridge before it sounds acceptable. Decades ago Linn used to dem the Ekos with a Basic cartridge against an Ittok with a Troika and the Ekos with the crappy little MM cart was better. I found that the RP10 was better in Hi-fi terms with lesser carts than my old LP12 was with decent MCs. The voicing was wrong but the better arm got the best out of the cheaper carts.
I tried a few carts with and without a shim but it's a relatively minor tweak, it does not alter the fundamental character of the deck. A little more or less bass, bit more detail, it's on a par with changing the tracking force a little.
Many people run LP12s with Linn basik arms or similar and fairly modest cartridges and are happy with the results because the LP12 is fundamentally right. That's why it's still loved and sold fifty years after it was introduced. I've only tried two carts on the new LP12, the Exact and OC9, and both sound much better than they did on the RP10. I'm not losing anything at all and gaining a huge amount. The deck's just better, that's all there is to it.
TheFlash
Reiki Audio
Ah but that is upgrade by replacement of the whole, like my P3>6>8>10 journey.
Apparently, the LP12 is not a turntable, it is a metaverse of turntables, all bearing the same name but almost none of which are in identical stock form. Or so I understand.
Yip. I say it's more accurately described as a family of turntables which happen to look the same. The closest analogy I can draw is the Stratocaster. The LP12 is the Strat of the turntable world. They all look fundamentally similar but spec, performance and finish vary hugely. Like the Strat, the LP12 is also modular and there are so many aftermarket parts you can build an entire deck without any Linn parts.
Darren L
Egalitarian
@Mr Pig I wasn't looking for excuses, I mean why would I? I was merely curious as to what lengths you went too (obviously quite a bit) to ascertain whether it was the character of the Rega TT that you disliked. I suppose the rest of your system would have a big part to play as well.
FWIW I like both Rega and Linn record players, well that is when they're well set up with a suitable system to get the best out of them, though there's others I prefer, thanks for taking the time to share you experiences.
FWIW I like both Rega and Linn record players, well that is when they're well set up with a suitable system to get the best out of them, though there's others I prefer, thanks for taking the time to share you experiences.
Peter McDermott
pfm Member
Update from OP:
Thank you everyone for the helpful comments above.
I've decided on a course of action:
First, I have bought a new phono stage a Graham Slee Gram Amp 2 with PSU1 power supply. I'm going to see what this does for the performance of my P3 and if I think that it's enough I'll stop there.
If I'm still not satisfied then I will buy a P6 with Exact cartridge fitted.
In terms of other turntables it was getting a bit expensive so I decided to not go any further than the P6.
Best wishes,
Peter
Thank you everyone for the helpful comments above.
I've decided on a course of action:
First, I have bought a new phono stage a Graham Slee Gram Amp 2 with PSU1 power supply. I'm going to see what this does for the performance of my P3 and if I think that it's enough I'll stop there.
If I'm still not satisfied then I will buy a P6 with Exact cartridge fitted.
In terms of other turntables it was getting a bit expensive so I decided to not go any further than the P6.
Best wishes,
Peter
I think the contribution of the rest of the system might be overstated? Yes, it has character but if anything the balance of my own system is warm and full so should, if anything, have helped the RP10. It's also worth noting that I use a Rega Saturn-R CD player which I rate highly and which fits in well. I actually think it sounds more analogue than the RP10!
Both of the dealers who were of the opinion that the LP12 is a better sounding deck are Rega dealers too so will have tried the Rega turntables in Rega systems. Years ago when their top deck was the P9 I heard similar opinions, that it didn't sound right. It's not a new thing. I've heard a few of the old contenders over the years. Pink Triangle, Roxsan etc and to me, while they might sound more detailed or have tighter bass or whatever, non of them convey the soul and humanity of music as well as the LP12.
I've had a Graham Slee Jazz club (same as a Era Gold) with the PSU1 and I think you'll enjoy that. I doubt it will provide a big enough kick though so I see the P6 in your future! ;0) The P6 is regarded as a sweet spot and the Exact is a joy of a cartridge so it sounds like a good plan.[/user]
Peter McDermott
pfm Member
You may well be right about that future..............
And why not? If you have the money and you'll enjoy it, why not?
I have a friend for whom it's always tomorrow. He'll buy 'X' once 'Y' has happened. We used to mountain bike often and his bike was a cobbled together pile of old used bits. My bike was brand new and much more capable but he always said he'd get a new bike once 'Y'. Well now he's a bit older, he's put on weight and has a bunch of health issues. He had his chance to enjoy a good bike and it's gone.
If you can buy a better turntable without it costing the kids inheritance then go for it.
Just the experience I'm looking for... I'm about to pull the trigger on a p8 with apheta 3 along with an aria fono stage. Currently have a fully modified p3 (GT reference + technoweight) with a 10x5 into a fono mm, is the difference going to be as big as I hope?
I have an Aria and like it. The simplest thing I can say is that it doesn't sound like anything, but not in a clinical or cold way. It's just transparent and both the MM and MC sections sound similar. I liked the Graham Slee too but the Aria is more neutral and can deal with any cartridge you throw at it.
My understanding is that the P8 is about as good as the RP10 was. They are a little different, with the P8 being a little warmer but not quite as detailed, but they're so close that dealers struggled to sell the RP10 after the P8 was in the shop.
TheFlash
Reiki Audio
Yes! I'd hate to set you up with ridiculously high expectations so will leave it there... but I think you're in for a pleasant surprise. You're moving to a better turntable and to a better phono stage and to a better cart and from MM to MC. You won't know which bit makes which difference but be prepared to smile a lot.
Report back!
Peter McDermott
pfm Member
Hi, I thought I would update the thread. In the end I went for the Rega P6. Just set up by my local dealer about half an hour ago.
Some pictures:
So that's a P6 with Exact cart. Phono stage is a Graham Slee Gram Amp 2 Special Edition with PSU1 power suppply.
Best wishes, Peter
Some pictures:
So that's a P6 with Exact cart. Phono stage is a Graham Slee Gram Amp 2 Special Edition with PSU1 power suppply.
Best wishes, Peter
Peter McDermott
pfm Member
Flash-sounds like quite an upgrade path there. Did you find big differences between the phono stages as you imroed your deck?
Cheers, Jens
TheFlash
Reiki Audio
Hard to say, as I committed the cardinal sin of changing two things at once! Because the '8 came with an Apheta 2 MC cart, I needed to also change the phono stage. I therefore really can't tell how much of the improvement is down to the deck, the cart or the phono stage, sorry.