Trump Part 9

[maxflinn]

Max,

If you want to hold the reins of power you have to be in power. If Bernie could have secured a Dem victory, as you seem assured he would, Bernie would have been the candidate who emerged unchallenged from the primaries way back when.

Joe

Joe I disagree. Bernie was not very well known at the beginning of the primaries yet still got very close to Clinton, and this despite nothing like the same media coverage and with the party conspiring against him.

His populist message and authenticity nearly did it against all odds.

Now he's the most popular politician in the US. And what he stands for is what the majority of Yanks want.

If he could oust the corporate shills and get the party to galvanize around him I'm convinced he would be president.

But the ruling Neoliberal elite don't want that!

 

[Joe P]

Max,

Now he's well known. Now he's the most popular politician in the US.

I hope Bernie can steer policy towards sanity, but I think you have a naive view of the US and consequently overestimate his influence. On the whole, the nation is conservative and Christian and Bernie doesn't resonate with either of those groups.

Joe

 

[Joe P]

P.S. And if frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their asses a-hoppin', but they don't so they do.

 

[maxflinn]

Max, you sometimes write as if you're the only person here who wants a decent progressive vision for the USA. That's patently not true. I would love to see a rejuvenated Democrat Party offering a genuine alternative to the electorate which included universal basic health care funded by taxation.

However, "incremental bullshit" is all that was on offer last November and, given the alternative nightmarish far-right wannabe dictator that is Trump, that was clearly the best choice.

I don't want to rehash old arguments but here's a thought experiment for you: given what you now know about Trump do you still see him as the lesser of two evils, compared with Clinton? Bear in mind that Trump is as eager as any President I can remember to involve the US in military action (in entirely new theatres of war too - N Korea, Venezuela... anywhere appears to be fair game).

It's a hypothetical question but maybe you'll humour me with a short answer. No need for a long rant about how corrupt the current Democrats are - we get that.

Sorry but you do want to rehash old arguments. So do half the forum and to be quite honest I find it childish. I'm not interested.

If you want to discuss the Democratic Party though,
Well I'd love to.

 

[droodzilla]

Sorry but you do want to rehash old arguments. So do half the forum and to be quite honest I find it childish. I'm not interested.

If you want to discuss the Democratic Party though,
Well I'd love to.

Says the man who keeps slagging off Clinton on a Trump thread.

 

[matthewr]

Bernie was not very well known at the beginning of the primaries yet still got very close to Clinton

LOL.

 

[maxflinn]

Max,


I hope Bernie can steer policy towards sanity, but I think you have a naive view of the US and consequently overestimate his influence. On the whole, the nation is conservative and Christian and Bernie doesn't resonate with either of those groups.

Joe

Joe as I've said before I'm aware of that argument. The polls though showed him beating Trump. Every poll, to my knowledge.

And polls show the majority of Yanks want what Bernie's offering to deliver, so I think he'd win.

 

[maxflinn]

Says the man who keeps slagging off Clinton on a Trump thread.

The corporate Democrats are who I keep slagging off, Drood, and for good reason in my humble opinion.

I tried to start two threads in which I could raise awareness of their competition in the Democratic Party but trolls descended on both, so I post such info here.

Perhaps Tony or Joe could start a thread on the future of the Democratic Party and ask members not to troll it? But then I reckon a child would be in with a 'you supported Trump' comment anyway.

 

[Joe P]

I repeat the adage espoused by my old boss in Kentucky: "Now maple leaf, if frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their asses a-hoppin', but they don't so they do."

It helps if you picture him (chap on the left) as you read it.

Joe, aka maple leaf

 

[Seanm]

Max,

If Bernie could have delivered a resounding victory the Dems would have been all over him, just like how the Republicans are all over Trump now.

The key to power and change is actually being in office.

Joe

They didn't (and no doubt don't) believe he could deliver. And they wouldn't want him to if they did.

Or to put it another way, they do not understand what is going on, and if they did they would be more scared than they are. You mentioned history: it's of limited value, IMO, in times of tumult, but it would certainly be a mistake to ignore the very recent history of the UK. One of its lessons is that centrists are absolutely the last to recognise a crisis of the centre, and one of the reasons for that is that they have the most to lose from facing up to it.

 

[maxflinn]

LOL.

Again you presume to be right but you're not. Sanders was not very well known to the public. This was mentioned hundreds of times on the media at the time. The little known senator from Vermont I believe was the usual description.

 

[Seanm]

Says the man who keeps slagging off Clinton on a Trump thread.

That seems like the most sensible thing to be doing following a Trump victory. He didn't exactly win it on merit.

 

[Yank]

...Bernie was not very well known at the beginning of the primaries...

This is just not true.

 

[maxflinn]

That seems like the most sensible thing to be doing following a Trump victory. He didn't exactly win it on merit.

As Jimmy Dore says she was the only Democrat in the country that couldn't beat Trump. But of course, the donors paid their money and got their gal...

 

[Still]

We will have to agree to disagree Joe.

Is your liar list full?

Edit: Sorry - of course I meant ignore list. Predictive text, or something, is becoming a right pain.

This is just not true.

In max's world we can't handle the truth.

 

[Joe P]

Sean,

So it boils down to the Dems preferring to be out of the Oval Office than in it with Bernie at the helm?

Seems to be, you know, a far-fetched scenario.

Joe

 

[maxflinn]

This is just not true.

Well every political commentator I listened to at the time called him the little known senator from Vermont.

Maybe it was just me and them that didn't know him

 

[Joe P]

Max,

As Jimmy Dore says she was the only Democrat in the country that couldn't beat Trump.

She did beat him by several million votes, but the oddness that is the Electoral College decided the election otherwise.

Joe

 

[Still]

Well every political commentator I listened to at the time called him the little known senator from Vermont.

Lack of credible sources of information alert!

 

[maxflinn]

Sean,

So it boils down to the Dems preferring to be out of the Oval Office than in it with Bernie at the helm?

Seems to be, you know, a far-fetched scenario.

Joe

Joe, I say it's the reverse. They'd prefer to be out of power without Bernie as head hauncho as opposed to in power with him in charge.

They're corporate hookers see. They don't want power for the people, like Bernie. They want power for "their" people.