Trump Part 17

[vuk]

Lasted for the first sentence of the intro by Hedges...” despite the fact that the Mueller report showed trump did not collude with Russia”. It stated nothing of the sort. Barr stated that. We don’t know what the report said until it’s available unredacted.

Max / Vuk. Is this really the best you can recommend?

i can recommend lasting more than the first sentence of an interview/book. hedges is simply speaking in broad terms, not the minutiae and, in that case, the description is accurate. if we reduce everything down to quantum physics, then everything is part of everything else and you can't have a pragmatic conversation.

 

[Cav]

Did the Mueller report show that Trump did conclude with Russia, then?

 

[vuk]

Yea, it's amazing that this sort of propaganda is spread by these journalists who you would expect to be accurate in their statements/analysis - it's exactly what team Trump/Barr set out to achieve

do you really believe trump's statements have had any influence here?

it's not propaganda. cohen is arguably the top russia expert and academic in the USA. he is emeritus prof at princeton. if you can publish a detailed rebuttal of his analysis, you can be famous too. otherwise, you are sort of like a climate change denier who doesn't want to look at or understand the facts.

 

[vuk]

Did the Mueller report show that Trump did conclude with Russia, then?

to the same degree that the comey report showed whatever about clinton's emails -- not serious enough to pursue seriously.

 

[vuk]

Who’d have thought a program on Russia Today would ever take such a line?!

can you explain how exactly how hedges or cohen have been given instructions by the russian state on what to say? you also have to account for the fact that what they are saying has been consistent for decades, so are they life-long agents/ cohen has lived in russia.

you keep trying to mock max and other about "conspiracy theories" and this is your level of critique?

over and over again, on this forum, the views of serious journalists and academics with a proven track record and topns of integrity are dismissed on emotional whims. at the same time, these people are furious about how similar expert opinion was dismissed in the context of brexit. there is only one rational conclusion.

 

[Tony L]

LOL, you really do have a high opinion of yourself! “Serious journalist” = those that agree with your rather oddball fringe politics. It is clearly nothing more than that, and the very definition of an echo chamber. There are credible journalists on all sides of the political spectrum, and most don’t need to be financed by a Putin propaganda channel. Your so called “serious critique” constantly gets it wrong to my eyes, e.g. Dieudonné, Peterson, Assange, the Bosnian genocide, Mueller etc etc, and you then laughably try to lecture the rest us from a pedestal of self-proclaimed intellectual superiority. This from someone who still types in lower case to make a sub-sixth form ‘anti capitalist’ gag! Forgive me if I do find it all rather amusing!

 

[Ciunas Audio]

do you really believe trump's statements have had any influence here?

it's not propaganda. cohen is arguably the top russia expert and academic in the USA. he is emeritus prof at princeton. if you can publish a detailed rebuttal of his analysis, you can be famous too. otherwise, you are sort of like a climate change denier who doesn't want to look at or understand the facts.

What are you talking about. I'm being accurate in what was & what was not investigated/cleared by Mueller - his report cleared Trump of a very specific charge - that he or his associates conspired with the Russian agencies, IRA & GRU in interfering with the Presidential election.

This is decidedly NOT being cleared of "collusion with Russia" - that is the propaganda that Hedges, Greenwald, you & Max & other Trump apologists continue to disseminate. It has been spelled out to both you & max on here many times & you need to face up to that very clear fact yet you seem to continue as if it has never been made clear to you & neither you nor Max have denied/argued this finding

So here's your chance to either put up or shut up - give us your arguments how Mueller's report is NOT just about this specific collusive charge & goes no further than this

 

[maxflinn]

that chris hedges weekly show has been the best news/current-affairs TV for the past 2 years. nothing else is even close. i've not missed a single episode.

Yes it's very informative. This episode particularly so, but as we've seen some who believe in certain things will just dismiss it as propaganda, without even watching it.

Entrenchment. No different to asking a cable believer to read the results of a scientifically controlled blind ABX test. They won't. They'll say they don't need to, as they believe their own ears.

 

[Ciunas Audio]

I watched it, Max, until I heard Cohen say "Russigate was a fraud" - this is the typical propaganda - signalled by the use of the word "Russiagate"

So Max what about when you participated on the audio section - I invited you many times to come to Dublin & have a listen to examples of what I claimed was audible but you never answered.

Like I said to vuk "So here's your chance to either put up or shut up - give us your arguments how Mueller's report is NOT just about this specific collusive charge & goes no further than this". Put your heads together & come up with your best argument using the facts of the Mueller report not what you think it says

 

[Tony L]

Entrenchment. No different to asking a cable believer to read the results of a scientifically controlled blind ABX test. They won't. They'll say they don't need to, as they believe their own ears.

Again arrogance and fantasy - you assume people haven’t watched enough of RT to get a gist of the channel output and its slant. I doubt you hang on every memo from say the IEA, Henry Jackson Soc etc just in case it will change your perception of what these entities are. Please don’t be so arrogant to think I haven’t done the same with the echo chambers in which you and Vuk reside.

PS The post above makes the point perfectly. I too would have turned off at the point of those obvious propaganda triggers. I understand exactly where you get the language and phrases you endlessly parrot and I reject that source material as it is so clear as to what it is.

 

[maxflinn]

John, Russiagate is only mentioned in passing; the conversation is a broader one about what's driving US animosity towards Russia, and the potentially disastrous consequences.

I'm not interested in arguing with you. In fact it's pointless as even after Mueller's report concluded one thing, you interpret it to conclude the exact opposite.

Nothing will make you deviate from this position, because you're entrenched. You're impervious to reason and goaded by the site administrator will only regress to insults and other silliness as logic and reality is your undoing.

So I'll just leave it to ya.

 

[vuk]

LOL, you really do have a high opinion of yourself! “Serious journalist” = those that agree with your rather oddball fringe politics. It is clearly nothing more than that, and the very definition of an echo chamber..../QUOTE]

so, you can't respond to specific arguments and revert to mockery instead. that's what trump does too, btw.

 

[Ciunas Audio]

John, Russiagate is only mentioned in passing; the conversation is a broader one about what's driving US animosity towards Russia, and the potentially disastrous consequences.

Yes, I do believe that the US have an animosity towards Russia & Putin, in particular, because the US (from Clinton onwards) being the bullies that they are, treated Russia as a failed state & Putin brought back dignity to the Russian people - something the alcoholic, Yeltsin didn't. So yes, I concur with all that but 'slipping in' the "Russiagate was a fraud" by Cohen & Hedges is just propaganda

I'm not interested in arguing with you. In fact it's pointless as even after Mueller's report concluded one thing, you interpret it to conclude the exact opposite.

I have quoted text from Muellers report which supports exactly what I say - it's you who "interpret it to conclude the exact opposite" & I see from your unwillingness to support your opinion that you have no basis on which to base your opinion.

Nothing will make you deviate from this position, because you're entrenched. You're impervious to reason and goaded by the site administrator will only regress to insults and other silliness as logic is your undoing.

So I'll just leave it to ya.

Again, you are projecting your own flaws onto me - just as you have done throughout this post.

You do have a habit of making bullish statements, quoting others to support your claims & when challenged to defend/support your statements, you run away. You ran away from the audio forum specifically as a result of this inability to face up to how wrong you were when someone who you relied on for support of your view that "all DACs sound the same", eventually discovered that they didn't & you just couldn't accept it, falling out with him & leaving that section of the forum.

Have a better look at yourself when you project onto others exactly what you are guilty of

 

[Ciunas Audio]

I'm still waiting for either you or vuk to argue your case using text from Meuller's report - either put up or shut up!!

 

[Darmok]

Robert Mueller to make a public statement at 4pm today.

He will make a statement on the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 Presidential election,' the special counsel's office announced Wednesday morning shortly before the event was to be held.

He will not take questions of give any answers.

It will be broadcast live on Sky News and others, I presume.

 

[vuk]

I'm still waiting for either you or vuk to argue your case using text from Meuller's report - either put up or shut up!!

you keep bringing everything DOWN to this tedious realm and keep avoiding the big picture. the discussion hedges and cohen had is at a much higher level and far more important than whatever minutiae you seem to think is worth obsessing over here.

 

[Stunsworth]

Mueller’s been explaining some of his conclusions. I’m expecting a Twitter tirade from Trump.

 

[Darmok]

As I saw Muellers statement, if drumpf fails to win the presidency in 2020, he will face charges of misconduct in a public office, just like de piffle faces the same charge in the UK.

 

[TheDecameron]

Mueller’s been explaining some of his conclusions. I’m expecting a Twitter tirade from Trump.

“Kim Jong said you were a paid DNC shill and if you’d been in NK, he’d have had you facing an anti-aircraft gun down the firing range”

 

[Ciunas Audio]

you keep bringing everything DOWN to this tedious realm and keep avoiding the big picture. the discussion hedges and cohen had is at a much higher level and far more important than whatever minutiae you seem to think is worth obsessing over here.

As I said - give your proof that Hedges, Cohen, Greenwald, Max & you stating "there was no collusion" is NOT propaganda - something you & Max have repeatedly stated in a bullish fashion & yet when I challenge this you try to deflect & say the truth of what Mueller ACTUALLY said in his report is just a tedious realm of minutia

Interesting how you avoid the truth but it doesn't surprise me

Mueller just said publicly that he didn't have enough evidence to convict Trump on the very specific conspiracy he was charged to investigate & he also said that "if he had enough confidence that Trump hadn't committed a crime, he would have said so" - this refers to obstruction. Ever consider how obstruction interferes with investigations & that's why Mueller couldn't find enough evidence? That's why I considered the mistake made in the Mueller reports was the parts were in the wrong order - Part 1 should have been Obstruction & Part 2 conspiracy/collusion - the obstruction prevented enough evidence being accumulated for collusion.

Either put up or shut up with the propaganda!!