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TRON

Paul Ranson said:
Linn power amps are 7k8, the Quad 909 20k, I found an Audiolab which was also 20k. My ATCs are 10k. 18k is not low, and 9k shouldn't cause most preamps a problem.

If you have an unusual preamp with an output drive limitation, then you cut your power amp cloth accordingly, and vice versa. It's not a conspiracy...

Paul
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Of course Naim would never do anything to lock you into the brand now would they. That is not how they operate at all!
The whole point is that this is usually too low for a valve preamp, but not in Tron's case. You tribesmen are just plain weird.
 
How on earth does the Naim power amp input impedance 'lock you into the brand'?

IIUC many people successfully use valve pres with active ATCs, which are 10k. Although it may be 10k per connector, so a single ended output would see 20k. Same as a Naim...

Paul
 
I'm a great fan of GT's TRON kit. Happy enough to dump a hod load of cash into GT's hands. I have had his demo Meteor pre-amp (predecessor of the Syren) for some time and will be picking up my Voyager power amp in time for Christmas.

The TRON amps are fantastic - great sound, beautiful build and good value for money. Oh I hear you say that they are insanely expensive. Well they aren't expensive compared to high end competitors. Also the quality and cost of the components won't be found in any main stream manufacturer's kit - they couldn't afford to put them in. Yes, the low power outputs from 300B or 211 amps isn't great, so that might limit your speaker choice, but get the speakers right and they are stunning.

Charlie
www.charlie-chan.co.uk
 
Regarding matching I understood the rule of thumb is 50-100 ratio as a minimum. This really means nearer the 100k input for most power amps.

TRON are expensive for good reason, but far from insanely so. The owner and founder lives in a nice but normal house, prices reflect very bespoke parts, absolute top quality materials and build time. I suspect Graham would probably earn more money by the hour as a plumber !

I have a picture of the inside of the Severn Preamp, I hope he doesn't mind sharing. This is an early model and taken some time ago, but any home builders will see what I mean about build quality.

Some manufacturers seemingly charge for insight and knowhow, TRON charge for unit cost and quality.......

http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy277/IWCDoppel/R0011941.jpg
 
The attention to detail and tidiness looks fastidious, but isn't that what we'd expect given the price. We should demand this as the standard not the exception.
 
Your right we should expect this.

Now look inside many other so called well made components, thin flimsy circuit boards with stock components, cheap wire, cheap sockets, asian factory build, oh and nice casework, some blue logo and marketing hype etc, etc

We don't always get it :(
 
Yes, the combination of an Audio Research preamp into a Naim power amp is a mismatch made in hell. I tried an SP8 into some 135s and was very unimpressed by how tonally and dynamically languid it was. A 42/Hicap had vastly more verve, albeit at the expense of a tinselly sounding upper mid/lower treble.

However, the same 42.5/Hicap greatly outpaced the same SP8 when both were used in to Audio Researchs own power amp (D70mk2- to this day one of the best sounding amps I have ever owned, but also one of the most fault prone).

The SP10 I understand injected some serious dymanics that were glossed over by the SP8. I heard the SP10 on many, many occasions, but never in my system, as the price it commmanded back then was many multiples of even a 32.5/Hicap- which was then Naim's finest.
 
There's no comparison in component & build quality between TRON and mass market high end kit. Graham aims to build the best electronics he can, regardless of cost. His mark-up is small considering the unit build cost. Don't forget also that each unit is hand made by Graham and not outsourced to anyone else, in this country or in the far east.

Charlie
 
rontoolsie said:
Yes, the combination of an Audio Research preamp into a Naim power amp is a mismatch made in hell. I tried an SP8 into some 135s and was very unimpressed by how tonally and dynamically languid it was. A 42/Hicap had vastly more verve, albeit at the expense of a tinselly sounding upper mid/lower treble.

However, the same 42.5/Hicap greatly outpaced the same SP8 when both were used in to Audio Researchs own power amp (D70mk2- to this day one of the best sounding amps I have ever owned, but also one of the most fault prone).

The SP10 I understand injected some serious dymanics that were glossed over by the SP8. I heard the SP10 on many, many occasions, but never in my system, as the price it commmanded back then was many multiples of even a 32.5/Hicap- which was then Naim's finest.
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I have an SP10 (one of the very few in this country) and have driven a pair of 135s with it to amazing effect. I also have an SP8 that is nearly as good so I am surprised by your post TBH. I am sorry but there is no preamp from the Naim stable that blows either of the mentioned ARC preamps away. There must have been more going on than your post mentions. I suspect the SP8 in question desperately needed a new set of valves or had sonically inferior valves fitted. If you are anywhere near the London area we should get together.
 
It may be that the SP10 has a completely differing output impedence from the SP8. BTW the SP8mk2 vs 42/Hicap comparison was done in 1985. The SP8 was a dealer demo and presumably up to snuff. I would love to hear a SP10mk again, but unfortunately there is a vast body of Atlantic ocean between me and London. I remember listening to both the SP10 and the SP11 when the latter was first introduced and felt that 11 was a large step backwards.
 
topoxforddoc said:
There's no comparison in component & build quality between TRON and mass market high end kit. Graham aims to build the best electronics he can, regardless of cost. His mark-up is small considering the unit build cost. Don't forget also that each unit is hand made by Graham and not outsourced to anyone else, in this country or in the far east.

Charlie
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This is the underneath of my Tron 300B. A neat bit of wire work between quality components.


20100913_0145.jpg


R.
 
What you are getting with a TRON is a personal amp designed an built by someone who does it for the love of it. There is no outsourcing, no automation, each one is hand soldered and assembled by Graham and therefore the build quality is as good as you will get from anything.

I have had a range or other ARC and Krell equipment and it is not in the same league with lots of faulty switches, dodgy selector pots and unreliable circuits.

I wish I could afford one of Graham's power amps, like the Telstar, yes please!

However even though I can't afford one (or more like justify why the children are getting no food, clothes or anything else this year!) I don't think they are bad value because of the work that goes into them.

You need to bear in mind that the build time is quite extensive and we are not talking housewifes in China here. Not only are you getting top drawer components, not only are you getting a circuit that has been designed and refined by one of the most knowledgeable valve engineers in the country you are getting a product that is hand built in the UK by the man himself.

Personally from that perspective I think its a work of art and I'm proud to own one.

Jeremy

PS. It sounds pretty stunning too!
 
I'm not alone here then... Yes, I'd love a Tron power amp, but my budgets don't allow it either. However, I did get a Seven Preamp (like a Seven line but with a very nice MC phono stage built in). This is one sweet preamp, and goes a treat with my restored Quad IIs (with the GT Audio power supply mod). I haven't opened the case but it sounds beautiful and the input selector and volume control have a precise, well-damped action that is like no other bit of kit I've owned (or touched).
 
How often does a bit of kit get its own thread on pfm and there are NO negative comments? NEVER, that's how often and I for one am a big fan. In many ways it is a unique product as it is pretty much unheard of that an amplifier designer will tailor-make an amp to your individual requirements. If there is any justice in the world of hifi, GT Audio will go from strength to strength.
 
Yes I'm really pleased with my Seven Pre too. I also like the looks, clean and discrete. I was at a HiFi show recently and I would be embarrassed to own some of the kit on looks alone. We always have a running joke about what colour of LED will with 'in' this year.

I'm just waiting for an Audio Note Vindicator to be built for me. Its due to be ready this week so hopefully I can pick it up at the weekend.

I have already demo'd the two together at home with a pair of AN/E HE speakers and it worked very nicely, much better than both the Quests and Conquests I tried at the same time. Even with only 3.5 watts it rocked out Brahms's Ein Deutsches Requiem with remarkable thunder and scale. Only at listening volumes way beyond sense did it show any sign of running out of puff, and then only slightly.

I do find the Seven brings a naturalness to music, especially acoustic instruments, even with my current inferior valve power amp. You suddenly get a feel for the body of the instrument too, what its made of.

I also started noticing lots of little background melodies and flourishes which before were just background and now are more defined and stand on their own. Like i'm thinking I knew it was there but I didn't realise just how nice it was or how well it was played.
 
I'm intriqued by Grahams Phono stage , hes only round the corner of the M25 , so I think a trip to him is on the cards.
 
hotwax said:
I'm not alone here then... Yes, I'd love a Tron power amp, but my budgets don't allow it either. However, I did get a Seven Preamp (like a Seven line but with a very nice MC phono stage built in). This is one sweet preamp, and goes a treat with my restored Quad IIs (with the GT Audio power supply mod). I haven't opened the case but it sounds beautiful and the input selector and volume control have a precise, well-damped action that is like no other bit of kit I've owned (or touched).
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I've tried it with Quad IIs as well and it sounded great. Soft but very musical and cozy. However one the Quads went FUT soon afterwards :confused: so I guess they had some issues already. It was a nice match though.
 
I currently run my TRON Meteor preamp with Quad IIs (rebuilt by GT). Just great combination (with my Avantgarde Duos). Looking forward to getting my TRON Voyager later this month. If your Quads have gone FUT, then get Graham to rebuild them - not cheap but worth every penny.

Charlie
 
topoxforddoc said:
I currently run my TRON Meteor preamp with Quad IIs (rebuilt by GT). Just great combination (with my Avantgarde Duos). Looking forward to getting my TRON Voyager later this month. If your Quads have gone FUT, then get Graham to rebuild them - not cheap but worth every penny.

Charlie
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Thanks for that but errrr. they were borrowed :eek:

I think the owner will do exactly that at some point now that he has got his wedding out of the way. He didn't blame me though, he knew they were a bit suspect.
 
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