LOTUS HIFI
LOTUS Hifi
anyone had a listen ?
thoughts ?
thoughts ?
TRON
- Thread starter LOTUS HIFI
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LOTUS HIFI
LOTUS Hifi
is the Syren the best pre ?
LOTUS HIFI
LOTUS Hifi
Interesting. I like the idea of it. Like the name, looks, the UK boutique-esque origins.
Guess I should best forget about it though and stick with my Dynavectors.
Guess I should best forget about it though and stick with my Dynavectors.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Wow ! Didn't know pre-amp's were so powerful
You're talking about the output signal strength into 135s, of course.I have no doubt the top Tron pre. is excellent, but so is the 552 (which would offer more obvious compatibility with 135s). Now maybe they're not in the same price range (don't know) but I do believe the Tron is valved, which makes it very different both sonically and in practice.
Whereas I'm perfectly happy with Naim pre. feeding valved powers, I'm not at all sure it would work quite as well t'other way round. For a start, t'would be a bit pointless keepng s/s amp's on 24/7, yet have to turn off the heart of the system (as it's valved) esp. for headphone users.
As for a direct comparison between these two high-end pre-amp's (as far as this is feasible), HiFi Dave should have a few ideas, which would be interesting.
Sorry, I thought that saying that it will drive four Naim 135s (bi-amping a pair of Sonus Faber Extremas) was the right terminology?
There is a lot to be gained from using a valve pre into 135s as it sweetens the sound but retains the PRaT. Believe me, in the right system the Tron is WAY better than the 552. It has a subtlety the Naim cannot match and is more "ebb and flow" where the Naim is "start stop" Bass is deeper on the Naim but less beguiling and organic, especially on acoustic bass (jazz trio type thing).
The usual problem in attempting to pair a valve pre with Naim power amps is the Naim's unusually low input impedence (No doubt a trick used by Naim to "encourage" you to use their pre amps). This is usually the stumbling block for most valve pre amps as they simply don't have enough output or there is an impedance mismatch. The Tron's design negates this problem, however, and as a consequence it makes possible the "best of both worlds" scenario, which if you hear it into the right speakers, will change your ideas on what's possible IMO. The Phono stage is one of the best I have ever heard also (and I run an ARC SP10).
There is a lot to be gained from using a valve pre into 135s as it sweetens the sound but retains the PRaT. Believe me, in the right system the Tron is WAY better than the 552. It has a subtlety the Naim cannot match and is more "ebb and flow" where the Naim is "start stop" Bass is deeper on the Naim but less beguiling and organic, especially on acoustic bass (jazz trio type thing).
The usual problem in attempting to pair a valve pre with Naim power amps is the Naim's unusually low input impedence (No doubt a trick used by Naim to "encourage" you to use their pre amps). This is usually the stumbling block for most valve pre amps as they simply don't have enough output or there is an impedance mismatch. The Tron's design negates this problem, however, and as a consequence it makes possible the "best of both worlds" scenario, which if you hear it into the right speakers, will change your ideas on what's possible IMO. The Phono stage is one of the best I have ever heard also (and I run an ARC SP10).
IWC Doppel
pfm Member
What do you expect with products hand built by the designer, bespoke manufactured components everything from Caps to boards etc.
Build quality that makes Krell look slapped together (Note I said build quality and not metalwork weight). Nothing is overlooked, even the boards are damper mounted, the best pots, the best resistors, the shortest signal path, and the abaility to have the phono stage matched to your cartridge etc, etc. modders would spend weeks scratching their heads !
There are very few products built with the same care and attention to detail where it matters. I have seen inside a handbuilt monoblock wired with very high quality solid silver wire for one customer.
Build quality that makes Krell look slapped together (Note I said build quality and not metalwork weight). Nothing is overlooked, even the boards are damper mounted, the best pots, the best resistors, the shortest signal path, and the abaility to have the phono stage matched to your cartridge
etc, etc. modders would spend weeks scratching their heads !There are very few products built with the same care and attention to detail where it matters. I have seen inside a handbuilt monoblock wired with very high quality solid silver wire for one customer.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Interesting stuff, Barry. I take what you say on board (as I only have the 552 experience), especially that of taming the 'nasties' from the 135s without losing their inherent PRAT, or words to that effect.
I do know of the impedance problems involved, but a number of people seem to front the Naims with a valved pre., so it can't be such a stumbling block.
However, having left 135s (yes, and four in bi-amping mode), I would obviously look to the 500 or change horses at that level.
When I moved to 509s from 135s (a pair at this juncture) I did miss the bass characteristics, but gained in all other parameters.
If I could get my head around a, say, Tron pre. feeding, say, a 500, I'd hope to retain what I have and improve on the percussive aspect. As I said; if I could get my head around it, because hifi life just doesn't work like that. The ambient, organic and natural (?) sound I get, especially on classical radio, CD and vinyl is a bi-product of valves, not solid state; not even nowadays, methinks.
I like the idea, and keeping a valved pre. on all day every day is not the end of the world.
Ideally for me, wanting all-day any moment access (I've trained myself since going valve power), solid state all round is the answer, but sonically I don't think it can be. Life's a bitch.
IWC Doppel
pfm Member
Mike, hi
I am sure you remember combinations like the Audio Research SP8 and Krell KSA 50 the old Krells had high impedence so no matching problems
Modern valve pres can combine the swing, dynamics and speed of the best trannies, without the over etched harshness and thin sound found in many so called detailed preamps.
Add to that tonal richness, tonal density, ebb and flow and you are reminded how mechanical trannies can sound.
I really like, nearly love my naim set up, it's big on PRaT and dynamics but good valves are not monochrome in comparison
The dynamics I acheived with Living voice air scouts horns and 12w valves left speed and transients from 4 135's way, way behind. The clarity, body and tonal density of 60's jazz with a Koetsu red has for me not been beaten.
I have enjoyed triamp active 300's with a 552 and ovators. This was a nice tidy set up something I would happily live with.
But the young vevacious heart stopping blond is valves n horns when done well. ;-)
I am sure you remember combinations like the Audio Research SP8 and Krell KSA 50 the old Krells had high impedence so no matching problems
Modern valve pres can combine the swing, dynamics and speed of the best trannies, without the over etched harshness and thin sound found in many so called detailed preamps.
Add to that tonal richness, tonal density, ebb and flow and you are reminded how mechanical trannies can sound.
I really like, nearly love my naim set up, it's big on PRaT and dynamics but good valves are not monochrome in comparison
The dynamics I acheived with Living voice air scouts horns and 12w valves left speed and transients from 4 135's way, way behind. The clarity, body and tonal density of 60's jazz with a Koetsu red has for me not been beaten.
I have enjoyed triamp active 300's with a 552 and ovators. This was a nice tidy set up something I would happily live with.
But the young vevacious heart stopping blond is valves n horns when done well. ;-)
The above statement is simply not true I am afraid. Krells for example have 6+ times more impedance. Most SS power amps have about 100 ohms (give or take) input impedance, Naims have 18 ohms IIRC. I am sure someone on here can give the exact figures but what you state is wrong.
darrylfunk
Banned
i thought most solid state power amps had impedances of 10k ohms to 20k ohms , do naim power seriously have 18 ohm inputs ????!!!!
how would they work?
how would they work?
My bad. I believe it is 18k but this is low, My Son of Ampzilla has 1meg input impedance and I believe a more average figure is 100k. If I am wrong, I am sure someone will tell me. Either way, biamping 135s takes this figure down to 9k which most valve preamps will be unable to cope with, but the Tron does.
Paul R
pfm Member
Linn power amps are 7k8, the Quad 909 20k, I found an Audiolab which was also 20k. My ATCs are 10k. 18k is not low, and 9k shouldn't cause most preamps a problem.
If you have an unusual preamp with an output drive limitation, then you cut your power amp cloth accordingly, and vice versa. It's not a conspiracy...
Paul
If you have an unusual preamp with an output drive limitation, then you cut your power amp cloth accordingly, and vice versa. It's not a conspiracy...
Paul
