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Tory leadership failure Part V: Rishi ‘Infosys’ Sunak

ks.234 said:
Cost of living: Food banks used by 3% of UK families
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65050920
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Indeed, yet still we have a political party owned and run by a billionaire elite very deliberately keeping tax loopholes open that serve no one but themselves and that loose the state so many billions a year. The minimum wage checkout girl at Asda gets absolutely zero choice in her taxation, the correct amount is simply deducted. The Sunaks, Rees Moggs, Johnsons and the rest of that oligarch class can just move vast sums of money around tax havens etc as they define the laws that ensure such activity remains possible.

The criminality is just so obvious. There is no reason this multi-millionaire elite would have any interest in chump day jobs such as politics unless it was a money laundering front. To my eyes that is exactly what the modern Conservative and Republican Parties have become. None of this right-wing shit has even the slightest interest in public service, they are there to asset-strip a nation. The self-interest is indelibly stamped across their every gesture and action.
 
Ponty said:
No argument with Harding etc. Worse than useless and funds should be recovered. We had a govt paying people to not work and stay at home, paying businesses, bailing out rail companies, airlines etc. Now we have a govt paying people’s energy bills. That’s really not normal or sustainable.
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Just as a thought experiment, I wonder how it might have played out if our energy companies had been nationalised (by Corbyn). The ridiculous profits wouldn't need to be 'windfall taxed' as they'd return to the exchequer directly. And domestic and business bills could have been capped at source, rather than paid and then subsidised, with the shareholders taking a slice of that government 'largesse'.

Basically, the government is suffering from something of a double whammy, right after a decade when its resilience had been whittled away to nothing. We can't know how things might have gone in Covid if the NHS had been better prepared (ie, the 2016 pandemic planning had been acted on rather than ignored). Nor can we know how the Ukraine war would have affected us, but I have a feeling we'd not have needed to dip quite so deep into government pockets, if there had been some distributed resilience throughout society, and business.

We struggled, and needed the emergency response, because we were weak. We were weak, because we'd been deliberately undermined, by government policy. That the same government had to face the consequences of its decisions is justice, of sorts, but it'd have been better if it hadn't been quite so necessary.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Just as a thought experiment, I wonder how it might have played out if our energy companies had been nationalised (by Corbyn). The ridiculous profits wouldn't need to be 'windfall taxed' as they'd return to the exchequer directly. And domestic and business bills could have been capped at source, rather than paid and then subsidised, with the shareholders taking a slice of that government 'largesse'.

Basically, the government is suffering from something of a double whammy, right after a decade when its resilience had been whittled away to nothing. We can't know how things might have gone in Covid if the NHS had been better prepared (ie, the 2016 pandemic planning had been acted on rather than ignored). Nor can we know how the Ukraine war would have affected us, but I have a feeling we'd not have needed to dip quite so deep into government pockets, if there had been some distributed resilience throughout society, and business.

We struggled, and needed the emergency response, because we were weak. We were weak, because we'd been deliberately undermined, by government policy. That the same government had to face the consequences of its decisions is justice, of sorts, but it'd have been better if it hadn't been quite so necessary.
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Pinko commie!
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Just as a thought experiment, I wonder how it might have played out if our energy companies had been nationalised (by Corbyn). The ridiculous profits wouldn't need to be 'windfall taxed' as they'd return to the exchequer directly. And domestic and business bills could have been capped at source, rather than paid and then subsidised, with the shareholders taking a slice of that government 'largesse'.

Basically, the government is suffering from something of a double whammy, right after a decade when its resilience had been whittled away to nothing. We can't know how things might have gone in Covid if the NHS had been better prepared (ie, the 2016 pandemic planning had been acted on rather than ignored). Nor can we know how the Ukraine war would have affected us, but I have a feeling we'd not have needed to dip quite so deep into government pockets, if there had been some distributed resilience throughout society, and business.

We struggled, and needed the emergency response, because we were weak. We were weak, because we'd been deliberately undermined, by government policy. That the same government had to face the consequences of its decisions is justice, of sorts, but it'd have been better if it hadn't been quite so necessary.
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IIRC competition laws would scupper cheap energy prices (OT but cheap energy has been subsidising our lifestyles for too long as well as screwing the planet but that’s another discussion). The global market price is the market price. If it’s higher than the govt sell it for, that’s a govt subsidy. Agree about resilience, although this should also be a personal responsibility. Too many are a pay cheque or 2 away from disaster, whilst new cars sit on the drive, holidays booked etc etc. Resilience is boring but never know when you’ll need it. You make your own choices.
 
Ponty said:
Well, a thing called covid came along, then a war, massively driving up public spending and debt, which now has to be recouped. What we saw was a conservative govt handing out money like a labour govt. They had little choice in reality. And here we are.
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You forgot the disease that shares its initials with TB, Tory Brexit...
 
Ponty said:
IIRC competition laws would scupper cheap energy prices (OT but cheap energy has been subsidising our lifestyles for too long as well as screwing the planet but that’s another discussion). The global market price is the market price. If it’s higher than the govt sell it for, that’s a govt subsidy. Agree about resilience, although this should also be a personal responsibility. Too many are a pay cheque or 2 away from disaster, whilst new cars sit on the drive, holidays booked etc etc. Resilience is boring but never know when you’ll need it. You make your own choices.
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Be honest, you write for the Daily Mail don't you?
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
On the one hand you seem to be arguing that people were afraid of Corbyn because of the risk to their tax planning, and on the other you seem to be arguing that the current tax burden is higher than what was risked under Corbyn. It makes it difficult to discern the basis of your argument, so as to engage with it.
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It’s a sort of ‘keep your hands of my stash argument’

Ponty said:
IIRC competition laws would scupper cheap energy prices (OT but cheap energy has been subsidising our lifestyles for too long as well as screwing the planet but that’s another discussion). The global market price is the market price. If it’s higher than the govt sell it for, that’s a govt subsidy. Agree about resilience, although this should also be a personal responsibility. Too many are a pay cheque or 2 away from disaster, whilst new cars sit on the drive, holidays booked etc etc. Resilience is boring but never know when you’ll need it. You make your own choices.
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Ah yes, it’s the feckless poor that has a problem. The other day I took a couple of boxes of food the lads in my football team have collected to the local foodbank, the queue was about 50m long waiting to collect stuff.
Strangely there wasn’t a Range Rover in sight.
 
ks.234 said:
Yet giving more and more money to the rich isn’t inflationary.
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Well, they tend to save / invest for tomorrow more than they spend today (resilience…) so yes, less inflationary. Who’s giving it to ‘the rich’ by the way and what does ‘rich’ mean in this context?
 
Ponty said:
Well, they tend to save / invest for tomorrow more than they spend today (resilience…) so yes, less inflationary. Who’s giving it to ‘the rich’ by the way and what does ‘rich’ mean in this context?
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Rich people putting their money into savings is part of the problem in that they don’t spend it into the economy, this was known when Truss gave a big bung to the rich and speculators gambled on the value of the £ falling, which it did. If you give more money to broader sections of society, they will tend to spend more into the economy stimulating economic activity.

The rich have been getting exponentially richer since Thatcher, these are the rich. At the same time ordinary people have been getting poorer, public sector workers have not had a pay rise in years and food banks are also growing.

It simply is not true that we ‘can’t afford’ decent pay rises, a better health service and to fight climate change. The money is there, it’s just that a small minority have been taking more and more of the available wealth for themselves.

This is economically illiterate and morally wrong.
 
Ponty said:
IIRC competition laws would scupper cheap energy prices (OT but cheap energy has been subsidising our lifestyles for too long as well as screwing the planet but that’s another discussion). The global market price is the market price. If it’s higher than the govt sell it for, that’s a govt subsidy. Agree about resilience, although this should also be a personal responsibility. Too many are a pay cheque or 2 away from disaster, whilst new cars sit on the drive, holidays booked etc etc. Resilience is boring but never know when you’ll need it. You make your own choices.
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If the Utilities were in Public Ownership there could no "competition" and no Law to scupper it.
 
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