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The Naiad takes the P10 even further. Supporting the turntable with spikes interests me and was wonder what mounting surface Rega recommends interfacing with the spikes.

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I also find it interesting that they sell hard feet to be used with their RP8 and 10 decks.
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I’ve experimented with hard feet on my turntable and feel there’s a benefit when used with a complimentary mounting surface.
 
I tip my topper to Rega certainly, but I'm not sure the kitchen surface experiment is very illuminating. The addition or removal of mass is a good way of tuning resonances and high mass can certainly make something more inert. If you want to reduce the effect of some frequencies of feedback from the speakers then a turntable on a very massive base, suitably decoupled from a wooden floor can help. His glass of water probably wouldn't tremble on a thick slab of slate perched on a pillow on the work surface. The demonstration is more about coupling than mass.

It seems like he thinks Gandy is a genius for removing mass whenever or wherever it can be found. I shouldn't think Gandy sees it that way.

Still, good for him for sharing his thoughts. He has an engaging delivery which reminds me of one of those newsreaders who! Emphasizes! Every clause! Lest you! Switch channel!
 
Hard feet are fine, but it seems to me that if you want to isolate the deck from feedback then it would make sense to put the hard feet on something very heavy which sits on something quite soft. When you turn up the juice a bit, many normal rooms deliver bass to the turntable through the floor. You might be lucky and have a thick concrete grounded floor, but otherwise...

If I had an RP10 I would perch it on a paving stone on a pillow.
 
sonddek said:
Hard feet are fine, but it seems to me that if you want to isolate the deck from feedback then it would make sense to put the hard feet on something very heavy which sits on something quite soft. When you turn up the juice a bit, many normal rooms deliver bass to the turntable through the floor. You might be lucky and have a thick concrete grounded floor, but otherwise...

If I had an RP10 I would perch it on a paving stone on a pillow.
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As I understand it the Rega argument is to remove mass as it always stores and slowly releases energy. In their current range-toppers they have removed as much mass as possible from everything bar the rotational platter mass that is needed for speed stability and to counter transient wow. By sitting it on a concrete block you are undoing all that work and coupling it to an energy-storing mass. I suspect Rega would suggest using one of their low-mass skeletal wall-shelves or even something light like a Lack table. Something that can not retain energy.

FWIW I have a lot of respect for this logical path. I am pretty sure they are right as to my ears in almost all areas of audio high-mass sounds bad to me. I tend not to like massive turntables or high-mass speakers. I hear something slow, dead and uninvolving in almost all I can bring to mind. In fact the only situation in my entire hi-fi life I’ve felt I’ve improved something by adding mass it has been switching the lighter alloy TD-124 platter for the original iron one, but there is rather more to that one as the materials and castings are just so different. I’m sure it is no coincidence that my favourite speakers are all thin-wall cabs with screwed-on baffles, panels, or other lightweight solutions.

I’ve not heard a Rega turntable newer than the P9 (I used to own one) so I’m not sure wether their sound would be to my taste, but logically I rate them as possibly the only turntable manufacturer doing any original work this century. Everything is just burping up ideas from decades ago which is why the real vintage classics such as the 301, 124, LP12 Gyrodeck, SP10 etc remain so competitive.
 
dave charlton said:
He is [a genius].
I'd perch it on a Rega T/T wall bracket.
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I'm a big fan of Roy Gandy and Rega and I'm certainly not calling into question his genius. In fact, I'm doing the opposite.

My point was that there is little mention of where Rega has added mass. For example, the bearing housing looks a bit more manly than a Planar 3, and then there's the very stiff brace between the platter bearing and the arm mount and the motor's double capstan and housing. I don't know if the ceramic platter is lighter or not. There may be other examples. The video seems to suggest that just removing mass is some kind of universal solution to the problems of engineering a turntable. I think that misses the point: it's not just about removing mass, or adding it, it's really about where and why.
 
sonddek said:
I'm a big fan of Roy Gandy and Rega and I'm certainly not calling into question his genius. In fact, I'm doing the opposite.

My point was that there is little mention of where Rega has added mass. For example, the bearing housing looks a bit more manly than a Planar 3, and then there's the very stiff brace between the platter bearing and the arm mount and the motor's double capstan and housing. I don't know if the ceramic platter is lighter or not. There may be other examples. The video seems to suggest that just removing mass is some kind of universal solution to the problems of engineering a turntable. I think that misses the point: it's not just about removing mass, or adding it, it's really about where and why.
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The ceramic platter has greater mass than the glass platters of the other Rega TTs.
 
sonddek said:
For example, the bearing housing looks a bit more manly than a Planar 3, and then there's the very stiff brace between the platter bearing and the arm mount and the motor's double capstan and housing.
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I view that as focusing materials where strength is needed to compensate for all that MDF that no longer exists in the design. I don’t have figures to hand, but I’d bet that, maybe platter excepted, the whole thing is vastly more rigid and vastly lighter than say a 1978 Planar 3. You obviously can’t remove all material, the skill is understanding exactly where to put it. In that Rega seem light years ahead of the typical vast ultra-high-mass slabs of CNC’d alloy or acrylic that is the basis of most modern high-end turntables. It is fascinating to contrast the Rega Naiad against say the top-end SME, Kuzma or Clearaudio. For me the Rega makes much more sense.
 
Tony L said:
By sitting it on a concrete block you are undoing all that work and coupling it to an energy-storing mass.
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Less massive and less excitable than the wall that a rigid wall mount is often coupled to.

Of course, it also depends on the wall. Does your bomb-shelter have three-feet-thick concrete walls, or a studded plaster diaphragm?
 
John said:
The Naiad takes the P10 even further. Supporting the turntable with spikes interests me and was wonder what mounting surface Rega recommends interfacing with the spikes.

naiad-hero-wr-4000px.jpg


I also find it interesting that they sell hard feet to be used with their RP8 and 10 decks.
rigid_foot_mounts_main.jpg


I’ve experimented with hard feet on my turntable and feel there’s a benefit when used with a complimentary mounting surface.
Click to expand...

It appears that the Naiad is boxed together with a very specific custom carbon fiber wall shelf John/Tony, but I have also seen many more images of the Naiad sitting on a table top of some type. I have tried in my room fitting solid metal spikes to my P10 -not the RP ones but much lighter mass ones more similar to the Naiad ones- and because it takes some time to do the A/B I have not yet come to a conclusion if one was more musical to the other, it wasn't night and day I can say that, also I'm using a floor standing turntable stand on solid cement floor, not a wall mount. And FWIW I only have sheet rocked walls, but if I had a brick wall I would try Rega's specific wall shelf for the P10.

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Regarding high mass or low mass designs, is it the weight of the entire record player or perhaps just the platter? Garrard 301/401's or Thorens TD124's are quite heavy motor units on their own so would that compare to say a Nottingham Analogue Spacedeck or Hyperspace? Which record player would be considered high mass if it turned out they were a similar weight?
 
Mike1965 said:
Garrard 301/401's or Thorens TD124's are quite heavy motor units on their own so would that compare to say a Nottingham Analogue Spacedeck or Hyperspace?
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They are complex to assess as, especially in the case of the Garrard, one really needs to factor-in the user’s taste in plinths. The TD-124 is interesting as, as designed, it actually isn’t that high-mass aside from the iron sub-platter.

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The chassis is a very solid alloy casting with strengthening ribs, but it is not high-mass. It is a spectacularly good design IMHO, there are very few companies today with the intellect to make something that physically strong with so little material today. Real 1950s precision engineering vs. 21st century oligarch bling.

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The real mass in a 124 is the green cast iron sub-platter. This weighs around 4.5kg IIRC. It makes for superb speed stability and rock solid timing. It is mass where it matters, though it is decoupled from the much lighter alloy upper platter which I suspect is a reason 124s sound so good, they really do not sound like a high-mass deck at all to my ears. It is fun, coherent, and really keeps me listening to/buying vinyl.

The chassis is (if Thorens’ instructions are followed) is decoupled from the plinth by four rubber ‘mushrooms’, and that is where the actual TD-124 ends. As such what occurs beneath the chassis is entirely up to the user. I view the plinth conceptually more as a stand. Mine is a very lightweight hollow curved ply affair made by Stereo Lab in Germany (the horn speaker company, not the band!). It would be hard to find a lighter 124 plinth. Many go the other way and effectively mount the deck in paving slabs. I’ve not done a lot of research here, but whilst I’m sure mass would sink the various mechanical noises 124s make effectively my suspicion is it would bring the deadness I always hear in high mass components. I’m still an old-school flat-earther at heart, just one who has found myself preferring idlers and valves to belts and solid state!
 
I must try and hear a well set up TD124 sometime. I have heard a few Garrard motor units over the years and several different Nottingham Analogue decks as well. Both designs were really enjoyable and involving experiences with far more similarities than differences. Different arms, cartridges, systems and even rooms but very nice and dare I say it musical none the less:)
 
tpetsch said:
It appears that the Naiad is boxed together with a very specific custom carbon fiber wall shelf John/Tony, but I have also seen many more images of the Naiad sitting on a table top of some type. I have tried in my room fitting solid metal spikes to my P10 -not the RP ones but much lighter mass ones more similar to the Naiad ones- and because it takes some time to do the A/B I have not yet come to a conclusion if one was more musical to the other, it wasn't night and day I can say that, also I'm using a floor standing turntable shelf on solid cement floor, not a wall mount. And FWIW I only have sheet rocked walls, but if I had a brick wall I would try Rega's specific wall shelf for the P10.
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What floor stand are you using? If it would accommodate a 19X14 inch Symposium Segue shelf I would think that would be a surface worth trying on something like a Archidee, Audiotech or Mana floor stand.
 
Well after watching part 2 its clear Harley loves Roy & Rega. Everyone's entitled to voice their opinion and fair play to him for stating his case. From my point of view I strongly dis agree with the view that Roy's a genius however I do think he is an very good business man and I admire his innovation and the fact that a lot of Rega's products have sensible pricing but calling him a genius is yet another example of the modern tendency to exaggerate everything.
 
John said:
What floor stand are you using? If it would accommodate a 19X14 inch Symposium Segue shelf I would think that would be a surface worth trying on something like a Archidee, Audiotech or Mana floor stand.
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I'm currently using an Audiotech, I also have a dedicated Tripod turntable stand which I also find to be very musical. I will check out the 19X14 inch Symposium Segue shelf you mention. Thanks.
 
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