Tone Poet Blue Notes

[poco a poco]

Certainly explains the general drum fuzz I hear on Roots and Herbs, and the splat, splat, splat from Idris Mohammad on parts Soul Liberation. Even so Van Gelder was great at capturing the energy and spontaneity of a session, (I love Van Gelder’s drum sound), and a little distortion here and there is a small price to pay. Over engineering can kill a session, see LJC’s post on Charles Tolliver’s recent Gearbox title.

Graham, yes I totally agree. A little distortion in the overall scheme of things is a small price to pay. Some people on the SH forum can't seem to tell the wood from the tree when it comes to things like that. (I hear a bit of distortion at 3 mins 51secs on side one! ). It's remarkable what Van Gelder and some of his other contemporary engineers were able to achieve back then with limited equipment and resources. Most of their output still sounding more alive than much I am hearing today. Van Gelder certainly recorded both drums and horns really well and it seems to me that Kevin Gray has been getting better and better in presenting that in these reissues. Pity there is not much he can do about his piano sound on a lot of Blue Notes. Still I think most modern engineers would throw a wobbly if they had to mix live to the final mastertape.

Yes I had seen the LJC review of Charles Tollivers Connect. I was tempted by that on release. Did you buy it and if so what do you think. LJC seems to love the sound of the Tone Poets and lately even the Classics, but I used to take with a 'pinch of salt' some of his comments on the sound of reissues over originals in the past (I know Connect is recent not a reissue). I think I said before even he seems to have been priced out of the market for originals now. Strange how in many cases the cost of originals has continued to rise even when there are excellent (better?) issues.

 

[Graham H]

Yes I had seen the LJC review of Charles Tollivers Connect. I was tempted by that on release. Did you buy it and if so what do you think.

I streamed Connect and decided to give it a miss - on musical grounds not necessarily sound quality. However, I did order Tolliver’s Impact, a Strata East reissue from 1977. There just seems to be more (youthful?) energy and risk taking on these earlier sessions - and besides Harold Vick is on board. Unfortunately the sealed copy I received has blobs of molten vinyl spread over side 1. This is the second Pallas pressing I have had like this - otherwise they are usually excellent and preferable IMO to Optimal. Waiting for a replacement before I can make any assessment of the music.

Together with LJC and super sales person Scotti over on Hoffman, I think the future of Tone Poets is assured.

 

[kjb]

For those interested here is a fairly new interview with Joe Harley that contains a bit more interesting information about his background, his HiFi and the starting the Tone Poets and the low expectation of sales potential when they started. And a little on Blakey overloading Van Gelder's mikes.

https://insheepsclothinghifi.com/in-conversation-blue-note-joe-harley/

Great article - thanks - and my TP cold turkey is clearly not going to start before I have that Grant Green record.

 

[Graham H]

Joe Harley: “People loved having something where they knew all aspects of the production were done as they should be. In other words, they knew who mastered it, they knew that we were using the original masters and they knew that the presentation, in terms of packaging, was going to be as good as you can get.”

Amen to that.

 

[Seanm]

Was going to draw a line under the Tone Poets as lockdown ends but...Music Magpie eBay shop has 20% off, bringing Katanga down to £28.

 

[poco a poco]

Interview with Kevin Gray:

 

[JustJohn]

Was going to draw a line under the Tone Poets as lockdown ends but...Music Magpie eBay shop has 20% off, bringing Katanga down to £28.

Thanks for the tip. My copy of Katanga! arrived yesterday.

Sometimes I get a slight feeling that a few of these Tone Poet titles flatter to deceive, but not this one. Just joyous sounds beautifully reproduced. It's a jazz time machine, beaming stunning music from almost 60 years ago into the here and now. A real tonic.

 

[Peter McDermott]

Just bought a copy of Katanga on Discogs, looking forward to hearing it.

Sadly both my copies of State of the Tenor Vol 1 stuck on the same track same side. Got a full refund, plus postage refunded so very good service from the shop in Germany. Can't imagine they faired so well.

 

[The Bish]

Thanks for the tip. My copy of Katanga! arrived yesterday.

Sometimes I get a slight feeling that a few of these Tone Poet titles flatter to deceive, but not this one. Just joyous sounds beautifully reproduced. It's a jazz time machine, beaming stunning music from almost 60 years ago into the here and now. A real tonic.

Agreed, can't get enough of playing it and 'Passing Ships', lighting up a grey Sunday afternoon.

 

[kjb]

I'd been umming and ahhing about getting Tina Brook's The Waiting Game - then the price dropped at Amazon to £25.

It arrived yesterday and I'm glad I finally got round to getting a copy. It's another great sounding record and there's something about the way Brook's works around a melody that hits the spot.

It's still available at that price if anyone else has been equivocating

The Waiting Game [VINYL]: AmazonSmile: CDs & Vinyl

 

[Tony L]

Cool, not got that one so I’ve taken a punt.

PS Scary how well I’ve now been conditioned to believe £25 a good deal for a record!

 

[kjb]

Cool, not got that one so I’ve taken a punt.

PS Scary how well I’ve now been conditioned to believe £25 a good deal for a record!

Same. I felt really chuffed at getting such a bargain

 

[gavreid]

I'm in too. I'm blaming you guys

 

[hockman]

While it is true that Brooks was unfairly ignored during his lifetime, he was not at the level of Dexter Gordon, Rollins, Mobley or McLean.

I find The Waiting Game to be the weakest of the Brooks albums. True Blue and Back to the Tracks are the strongest; however both are unfortunately not available as a Tone Poet.

 

[gavreid]

While it is true that Brooks was unfairly ignored during his lifetime, he was not at the level of Dexter Gordon, Rollins, Mobley or McLean.

I find The Waiting Game to be the weakest of the Brooks albums. True Blue and Back to the Tracks are the strongest; however both are unfortunately not available as a Tone Poet.

That's the thing about the Tone Poets though, for me they're not necessarily the real A list titles but are opening up well recorded music that hasn't really been available on quality vinyl for many years to a new audience. Thanks for ther tip about the other Brooks albums.

 

[kjb]

While it is true that Brooks was unfairly ignored during his lifetime, he was not at the level of Dexter Gordon, Rollins, Mobley or McLean.

I find The Waiting Game to be the weakest of the Brooks albums. True Blue and Back to the Tracks are the strongest; however both are unfortunately not available as a Tone Poet.

Minor Move is possibly my most played Tone Poet. Apparently Alfred Lion shelved it as he thought the ensemble playing was too ragged. I quite like the looseness in the playing and the melodic hooks. While The Waiting Game isn't prime stuff, its a really enjoyable set and worth having for Dhyana and David the King, both of which IMO go beyond the hard bop format.

True Blue is a lovely record and worth tracking down. It also has my favourite BN cover. I think my copy is a BN 75 ( a 2015 issue)

Would you include Wayne Shorter in your BN sax pantheon?

 

[paulfromcamden]

That's the thing about the Tone Poets though, for me they're not necessarily the real A list titles but are opening up well recorded music that hasn't really been available on quality vinyl for many years to a new audience.

Agreed - I'm only picking up the occasional title as I can't financially justify 'upgrades' on records I already have. It's great that they're putting out records that have been harder to find rather than just another pressing of Blue Train etc.

 

[Tony L]

It's great that they're putting out records that have been harder to find rather than just another pressing of Blue Train etc.

Agreed, though I question the focus on the real obscurities that were never released in the artist’s lifetime etc. There are so many Blue Notes that have never been reissued in quantity and are worth £hundreds, so there really is a ton of stuff outside the core essentials. I also wish, as I’ve said many times before, that they hadn’t cheaped-out on the covers to the Classic range to such an extent. These are amazing albums and deserve to be presented to new buyers in as good a form as possible. A non-gatefold tip-on sleeve shouldn’t be too much to ask given the quality of the Tone Poets.

 

[gavreid]

Agreed, though I question the focus on the real obscurities that were never released in the artist’s lifetime etc. There are so many Blue Notes that have never been reissued in quantity and are worth £hundreds, so there really is a ton of stuff outside the core essentials. I also wish, as I’ve said many times before, that they hadn’t cheaped-out on the covers to the Classic range to such an extent. These are amazing albums and deserve to be presented to new buyers in as good a form as possible. A non-gatefold tip-on sleeve shouldn’t be too much to ask given the quality of the Tone Poets.

The Optimal pressings are only OK in my opinion, they don't really justify a better sleeve. They really don't match the Tone Poets that I have (only 3) and Optimal hasn't reached the standard of the old RME-Alsdorf yet - now those were quality pressings at a very good price. Maybe they should all have just been Tone Poets, or both for choice would be great.

 

[Tony L]

That’s interesting, the consensus seems to be the mastering and pressing is fine. I only have two, plus whatever Donald Byrd’s Ethiopian Knights is, and whilst the tight statically charged inner sleeves are awful and can so easily damage the vinyl during removal (assuming it even got in unscathed) I’ve no issue.

The two Classics I have are Wayne Shorter’s Speak No Evil and Horace Silver’s Song For My Father. My points of reference here was a D’Agostino for the former (the Classics killed it) and a late-90s ‘Pressed by Capitol 180g Audiophile’ range (I’d rank that as roughly a draw, I’d not swap any more of those). As such they aren’t bad at all.

To be honest I’m not certain where I rank the Tone Poets overall. They are clearly bery good indeed, but I do think they are too bright. I’d not pull any out if you asked me to play my best sounding Blue Notes; they are either early US, Japanese, Classic Records or Cisco (controversially I prefer the Cisco One Flight Up to the TP, though obviously the TP cover is much nicer).

To sum up I think the current Blue Note ranges are more than good enough to buy and forget with no need to replace it, but I’m not in the “these things are the best ever” camp a lot of folk seem to be.