poco a poco
I'm Jim
If your exploring Kenny Burrell you might also want to give 2 Guitars on Prestige from 1957 a listen. Here the other Guitar is Jimmy Ramey and a star lineup including Donald Byrd, Jackie McLean and Mal Waldron.
Tone Poet Blue Notes
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If your exploring Kenny Burrell you might also want to give 2 Guitars on Prestige from 1957 a listen. Here the other Guitar is Jimmy Ramey and a star lineup including Donald Byrd, Jackie McLean and Mal Waldron.
poco a poco
I'm Jim
Joe Harley says there "it's the best it has ever sounded" though. 
Not had a chance to play my copy yet.
Not had a chance to play my copy yet.
poco a poco
I'm Jim
Here is a long interview with Rudy Van Gelder on Tape Op where he talks about his ideas and methods for recording musicians and gives his views on moving to digital and surround sound. No detail on miking a piano, but a good story about how Miles and Monk achieved the right balance.
https://tapeop.com/interviews/43/rudy-van-gelder/
https://tapeop.com/interviews/43/rudy-van-gelder/
Stunsworth
pfm Member
Here is a long interview with Rudy Van Gelder on Tape Op where he talks about his ideas and methods for recording musicians and gives his views on moving to digital and surround sound. No detail on miking a piano, but a good story about how Miles and Monk achieved the right balance.
https://tapeop.com/interviews/43/rudy-van-gelder/
Thanks for that, I’ll read all of it later.
Stunsworth
pfm Member
Interesting comments on the SH Tone Poets thread re Andrew Hill piano flutter, going to go and have another listen to what I've missed so far
I could hear that when I was playing the record. I only read later that others on SH were hearing the same thing. My first thought was that the LP pressing was eccentric, but that’s not the case.
scotty38
pfm Member
Definitely interesting, I've not had another listen yet but been back over to SH and as said above Joe Harley has just posted that the issue isn't there and that it's a piano tuning issue.
scotty38
pfm Member
Just listening to mine again, it's not eccentric either, and I don't know if I hear anything or not
There are places where I think "Is that it?" on Subterfuge but if I'm being honest I don't know... To me that's a good thing, I'm certainly happier with these than the few MoFi original masters I have and these are £20-30 cheaper than those give or take....
Graham H
pfm Member
Just listened to Black Fire Tone Poet and it sounds better than my Van Gelder stamped Liberty. The Liberty is more upfront, but the space, clarity, dynamic range and tone of all instruments on the Tone Poet is much preferable. Great stuff.
The piano issue to my ears is tuning, but why pick on this title? As I was saying, I have issues with the piano on many BN sessions but I try to concentrate on the actual music. The problem I have with the complaint on the Hoffman forum is that this is not a Tone Poet mastering or vinyl issue, the piano sounds the way it does on the Liberty when the tapes would have been much fresher (1971 pressing).
In anticipation of playing Blackfire today, I listened to Andrew!!! (also a 1971 Liberty Van Gelder stamped). What a record! John Gilmore can really carry those angular lines and wide intervals and make them sound so fluent. I really do hope Joe Harley doesn’t throw in the towel out of frustration and this is on his shortlist.
The piano issue to my ears is tuning, but why pick on this title? As I was saying, I have issues with the piano on many BN sessions but I try to concentrate on the actual music. The problem I have with the complaint on the Hoffman forum is that this is not a Tone Poet mastering or vinyl issue, the piano sounds the way it does on the Liberty when the tapes would have been much fresher (1971 pressing).
In anticipation of playing Blackfire today, I listened to Andrew!!! (also a 1971 Liberty Van Gelder stamped). What a record! John Gilmore can really carry those angular lines and wide intervals and make them sound so fluent. I really do hope Joe Harley doesn’t throw in the towel out of frustration and this is on his shortlist.
Stunsworth
pfm Member
They certainly are. I’m really enjoying what I’ve bought so far, which is all of them. Part of me is wanting them to issue some of the more well known albums, but I’m perfectly happy with what’s appeared so far.
poco a poco
I'm Jim
Is it 'Andrew' on his shortlist? I thought it was 'Smoke Stack' that has both Eddie Khan & Richard Davies playing Bass? That should be great as a Tone Poet. I can live with either or better still both.
Graham H
pfm Member
Is it 'Andrew' on his shortlist? I thought it was 'Smoke Stack' that has both Eddie Khan & Richard Davies playing Bass? That should be great as a Tone Poet. I can live with either or better still both.
Haven’t a clue, just wishful thinking. Black Fire TP sounds so good compared to my Liberty I’d like the same for Andrew. Smokestack is destined as a BN80.
poco a poco
I'm Jim
My confusion, that's where I saw it. If it's on BN80 then it won't be on the Tone Poet list. Still happy to have it there and Andrew on Tone Poet eventually.
poco a poco
I'm Jim
I have also just caught up with playing Black Fire myself. This is a great record. I had to play it again straight away It's so good. So I still have the Kenny Burrell to catch up on. No wonder Joe Harley thinks this is one of the best Tone Poets so far. Every Tone Poet I get I tend to to think is even better than the last, but this mastering is really special. It is a really transparent window on to the musician and the recording. More like you are sitting in the first couple of rows of a small club with a very quite audience rather than a studio. Every one comes off we'll in this recording, but Roy Haynes drum kit and cymbals are really spectacular on this recording. You can even hear his intake of breath and 'Arrs' over the kit as he puts in a little more effort. Overall Hill's piano is better than in a lot of Van Gelder recordings.
Such transparency is also going to show any problems as well. I agree it is a piano tuning problem. It's perhaps not helped by hearing Van Gelder altering the balance of the piano to the other instruments, particularly when he hi-lights Henderson or Davis. I notice it most on 'Pumpkin' on side 1 and 'Tired Trade' on side 2. It would be interesting to know what order the tracks were really laid down in because I hear it more on these couple of tracks than any others. Was there an attempt to retune the piano? You would have thought someone would notice it was out or did Hill's percussive playing send it out of tune during the session. Perhaps there was more than one take, but these were still considered the best even with a tuning issue. And they are good. It's not going to bother me when the music is this good. Five stars from me.
Such transparency is also going to show any problems as well. I agree it is a piano tuning problem. It's perhaps not helped by hearing Van Gelder altering the balance of the piano to the other instruments, particularly when he hi-lights Henderson or Davis. I notice it most on 'Pumpkin' on side 1 and 'Tired Trade' on side 2. It would be interesting to know what order the tracks were really laid down in because I hear it more on these couple of tracks than any others. Was there an attempt to retune the piano? You would have thought someone would notice it was out or did Hill's percussive playing send it out of tune during the session. Perhaps there was more than one take, but these were still considered the best even with a tuning issue. And they are good. It's not going to bother me when the music is this good. Five stars from me.
poco a poco
I'm Jim
So I now see that the chief exponent of the problem on SH is now saying that on his second copy he does not hear anything wrong with the track 'Pumpkin'. So what do I know. He also says in other posts that that it's not a tuning issue and people shouldn't try to tell him what he is hearing. It's all getting a bit heated. Glad I only 'lurk' and don't post there.
Better just to enjoy the music and forget about this silly issue I think.
He also says in other posts that that it's not a tuning issue and people shouldn't try to tell him what he is hearing. It's all getting a bit heated. Glad I only 'lurk' and don't post there.Better just to enjoy the music and forget about this silly issue I think.
MotelBlues
pfm Member
I’ve only got the “Now He Sings...” and “Contours” TPs but I have to say this thread is a lovely read, so much joy and positivity.
Carry on!
Carry on!
Graham H
pfm Member
So I now see that the chief exponent of the problem on SH is now saying that on his second copy he does not hear anything wrong with the track 'Pumpkin'. So what do I know.
Better just to enjoy the music and forget about this silly issue I think.
Reads to me like he cornered himself. I refrain from joining and posting there as there are too many pissing up the wall competitions going on, (and I think this was one of them), which is a pity as there are some experienced, knowledgeable and worthwhile posters.
poco a poco
I'm Jim
Let's hope all this idiocy doesn't put Joe Harley off from posting there. It's great hearing about the Tone Poets from the 'horses mouth'.
......and I am now worried this guy is now starting in the thread a tirade against the brightness of exit signs in the cinemas that everyone should notice, but don't. With only one eye I have enough trouble finding my way out in the dark as it is!
......and I am now worried this guy is now starting in the thread a tirade against the brightness of exit signs in the cinemas that everyone should notice, but don't. With only one eye I have enough trouble finding my way out in the dark as it is!