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Tone Poet Blue Notes

There is an interesting ‘shoot out’ on LJC at the moment that maybe of interest here. Worth giving it a go if just for fun.
4 different masterings and pressing of Hank Mobley Blue Note 1568
8-B7-D0232-3-FE6-4304-BD77-77672-B50-C059.jpg

The whole of the track “Mighty Moe and Joe”
King Records, Japan (1981)
Toshiba-EMI, Japan (1984)
Classic Records USA (2002)
Music Matters Jazz 33rpm USA (2016)
Unfortunately no original as even he can’t afford this one that has always been rare and therefore expensive.
I did it blind as far as the posted findings so far, so don’t scroll to far down if you want to avoid his conclusion.

I listened on headphones (Sony WH-1000 mk5. Directly connected not via Bluetooth’.) I have the Music Matters, but the earlier 2x45rpm version) so I’ll post my findings later after I see if anyone else wants to give it a try.:)

https://londonjazzcollector.wordpre...568-gunfight-at-the-uk-corral-final-shootout/
 
Using focal Elear headphones - it’s a toss up between King and MM. MM sounds a bit brighter on the cymbals, and is possibly the only one of the four taken from first gen master. It also has more drop outs than the others, so maybe the copy tape used for Japanese editions was in better shape. Sax lacks upper partials on Toshiba and Classic.

Never really cared for Mobley much, but I’m finding his sax sound alone on this one is engaging.

BTW, KG’s mastering rig had been upgraded two thirds of the way through the MM45 series. All MM33 titles mastered on upgraded rig. (Source = Hoffman).
 
Can somebody explain why the magnetisation on one part of the tape doesn't bleed to the length of tape behind or in front of it on the roll over time? It must do right? To an extent anyway. So why don't we hear a shadow as it were or is it low level and removed in mastering?
 
gavreid said:
Can somebody explain why the magnetisation on one part of the tape doesn't bleed to the length of tape behind or in front of it on the roll over time? It must do right? To an extent anyway. So why don't we hear a shadow as it were or is it low level and removed in mastering?
Click to expand...

Pre and post echo print through can be heard on many recordings made with analogue magnetic tape. If it’s absent, then the tape stock is high quality and been stored in the correct manner. Some pre and post echo can be removed in the digital domain. This article may be of interest:

https://stashc.com/the-publication/environment/storage-of-magnetic-tape-audio-and-video-recordings/
 
Graham H said:
Pre and post echo print through can be heard on many recordings made with analogue magnetic tape. If it’s absent, then the tape stock is high quality and been stored in the correct manner. Some pre and post echo can be removed in the digital domain. This article may be of interest:

https://stashc.com/the-publication/environment/storage-of-magnetic-tape-audio-and-video-recordings/
Click to expand...

What an interesting site Graham - thanks for posting!

(currently reading about the correct storage and transport of Inuit gut parkas...)
 
My findings were very much the same as Graham’s based on these samples and oddly enough close to LCJ findings. I thought I would have preferred the MM.
1. King, by a small margin.
2. Music Matters. It did sound a bit brighter to me as well, but not in a decrement way.
3. Toshiba.
4. Classic. This did sound the most different. Uneven and fairly ‘murky’ in the low mids and base to me.
I think the drop outs on the MM may have had a slight influence. I don’t recall any obvious drop outs on my MM 2x45rpm that I think was mastered in 2006, but I will have to have a closer listen.

Obliviously these are only MP3’s, but based on these samples I think on their own I would be happy enough with any of my first 3.
 
I thought the King was bright and muffled. The Tosh was darker with the horns more forward, cymbals hardly there. MM much better but still a little bit dull compared to the Classic which was a step up imo, being a little brighter but with more focus all round, so a winner for me.
 
Listening on Sony MDR-7506s straight into my Macbook.

1. Toshiba - definitely a bit rolled off at the top end but I quite like that : )
2. King/MM equal place - a bit brighter but both sounded very nice to me
4. Classic - double bass does sound a bit murky. Also sounds a bit less punchy - because it's a quieter cut perhaps?

Very interesting to compare and read the thoughts of other members. It makes me wonder whether, for all the discussion about sources etc whether often what we really appreciate is the ear of the mastering engineer and how they have applied EQ and compression in a way that matches our own personal taste.
 
Looking at buying 1568's now on discogs my first choice Classic from Germany would cost £122, second choice MM from Canada £150, third choice Toshiba from Japan £72 and fourth choice King from the UK £99.

However there is a stereo Toshiba version issued in 1990 :- https://www.discogs.com/release/1208848-Hank-Mobley-Hank-Mobley that is available from Japan for £67.

The video clip has a stereo version which I think is streets ahead of the LJC mono's.
 
dave charlton said:
Looking at buying 1568's now on discogs my first choice Classic from Germany would cost £122, second choice MM from Canada £150, third choice Toshiba from Japan £72 and fourth choice King from the UK £99.

However there is a stereo Toshiba version issued in 1990 :- https://www.discogs.com/release/1208848-Hank-Mobley-Hank-Mobley that is available from Japan for £67.

The video clip has a stereo version which I think is streets ahead of the LJC mono's.
Click to expand...

Jeez, even the Scorpio pressing is up for £35!
 
I’ll do this properly at some point, but just through the iPad speakers I’ve a definite preference for the King; the horns just sound better and more alive. It sounds how I’d expect an RVG to sound. These records are about the midband. That is where the real magic lies IMHO.
 
Carmell Jones and Andrew Hill on the dealers’ lists this week for pre order ahead of 3rd March. Artwork looks damn good…
 
Some interesting pricing there, e.g. a lot for some of the 80s Pathe Marconi DMM pressings. I’ve always argued they are much better than their reputation in some quarters, but I’d not pay more than a BN Classic price for any title (e.g. Sidewinder) where there is a Classic in print. In that situation I price them at least a fiver below as I tend to prefer the Classic sonically even if the cover isn’t as nice.
 
A word of warning - those RTI inners that come with the TPs leach contaminants onto the record over time. I recently bought a mint, sealed RTI from 2015 or so and the surface looks dreadful, fortunately inaudible but it doesn't clear even with strong IPA solution.
 
gavreid said:
A word of warning - those RTI inners that come with the TPs leach contaminants onto the record over time. I recently bought a mint, sealed RTI from 2015 or so and the surface looks dreadful, fortunately inaudible but it doesn't clear even with strong IPA solution.
Click to expand...

That is very interesting/worrying. I rapidly decided I didn’t like them so have mine in knock-off MoFi-style ‘archival’ sleeves (Amazon) which seem identical to the ones Chad specs on the Acoustic Sounds reissues. They are very good value in the 100 packs. I felt the Tone Poet sleeves felt hard enough to leave scuffs if there was any dust on the surface so didn’t want to risk it. I’ve kept them all in case I ever sell-up.

Certainly worth those with TPs checking their oldest.
 
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Tony L said:
That is very interesting/worrying. I rapidly decided I didn’t like them so have mine in knock-off MoFi-style ‘archival’ sleeves (Amazon) which seem identical to the ones Chad specs on the Acoustic Sounds reissues. They are very good value in the 100 packs. I felt the Tone Poet sleeves felt hard enough to leave scuffs if there was any dust on the surface so didn’t want to risk it. I’ve kept them all in case I ever sell-up.

Certainly worth those with TPs checking their oldest.
Click to expand...

I saw that 45rpm was swapping them out a couple of years ago and thought to myself that he was probably over-thinking it. Not now...
 
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