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Tone Poet Blue Notes

I need to dig that out for a spin at some point as I’ve forgotten what it is like. I think mine is a Pure Pleasure reissue, it’s a 180g audiophile copy of some description. It never made an impression on me the way Art Pepper albums usually do - I usually love everything he’s on.
 
I've not really done serious A-B comparisons but I've noticed this - often (but not always) on a RVG mastered record, the amount of deadwax is greater than one that's been mastered by someone else. This implies van Gelder applied more compression or limiting of the lower frequencies hence the tracks take up less real estate.

I't's a thought but personally I'd be a bit wary of using groove spacing as an foolproof indication of low-end EQ. Modern computerised cutting lathes calculate the groove spacing in advance to make best use of the disc. That technology didn't exist in the 1950 and 60s.
 
I’ve had a copy of PoH by its alternative name Playboys for a few years so I’m quite familiar with the sound of it. Didn’t realise when I bought it, but it’s a Jazz Wax copy so cut from a CD probably. The new Tone Poet edition is so much better. I’m delighted because I really like the Jazz Wax version for the music.
 
my ears on my system the TPs sound a bit over-cooked with a bit of a ‘smile’ EQ (i.e. boosted top and bottom) and the originals exactly right/balanced. I may prefer the Tone Poets on a smaller less weighty speaker. I don’t know as I only have one vinyl system set up.

Another way of seeing it is that with very large speakers in a medium sized room, the rolled-off bass on the VGs might help focus the midrange (along with VG's presence region lift). Hart to say what system/room elements are contributing.

I think with this VG vs TP debate it would be good to do some specific comparisons. I can't necessarily contribute much there, since I'm lacking original VGs. I do have some early Japanese ones to compare, e.g. with the Ornette box, and some good Libertys that will have the same sonic priorities as the original cuts. It might be a good idea to start a separate Blue Note pressings comparison thread.
 
I have many original (not necessarily 1st pressings) BNs, Japanese (various King, Toshiba) and TPs. Generally speaking, the RVGs have a more in your face sound with great dynamics and presence. I find the TPs to be very good indeed, more natural and balanced sounding and more extended at the frequency extremes. I won't describe them as having a smiley faced EQ; they only seem that way in comparison to the RVGs. I believe they actually are more representative of what is on the mastertape than the RVGs which are engineered to be 'exciting'. Which seems to be consistent with what Harley is saying.

The Japanese are more somewhere in between the two.
 
Another way of seeing it is that with very large speakers in a medium sized room, the rolled-off bass on the VGs might help focus the midrange (along with VG's presence region lift). Hart to say what system/room elements are contributing.

That is possible, and it certainly isn’t just Blue Notes or Jazz. My system tends to sound at its best on original vinyl from the ‘50s, ‘60s, ‘70s and ‘80s. Some modern stuff sounds over-cooked in the bass and lacking in dynamics in comparison whereas the original vinyl sounds as good as I’ve ever heard it on any system anywhere. It is an area I really agree with Michael45 on YouTube. Over recent months he has been discovering just how good original vinyl sounds across a whole raft of genres. It is fascinating seeing a far more recent audiophile reaching the same conclusions I’ve held pretty much forever really. I’d already built up a very good record collection long before I bought any expensive audiophile reissues and I’ve been quietly doing the ‘hot stampers’ thing my whole record buying life; I’ve always compared different cuts whenever I’ve had the opportunity. Michael calls it the way I hear it myself, as does Ken Micallef.

My suspicion is mainstream rock and pop mastering has suffered as so much listening these days is on iPhone earbuds, computer speakers, iPads, tiny lifestyle hi-fi etc, e.g. stuff without any dynamic capabilities and with huge bass limits. As such they boost up the bass and slam everything through a limiter. The vinyl tends to be less compressed as it is simply not possible to cut an ‘always on’ signal the way it is digitally. This can lead to fairly random results and things go down fast if too long sides of heavily compressed material are attempted. That said some modern pop, rock, jazz etc sounds great, but there is little I’d pull out to show just how good vinyl can sound. That would likely all be original pressings from the ‘golden age’. Obviously this has nothing to do with Tone Poets, and to be fair I’m being really picky here, they do sound great and I do really like them. It is just that given the choice I would personally pick an RVG-stamped original or Liberty. I just feel they hold the artistic intent better, they are just so ‘present’ and alive sounding.
 
He's spot on about the Costello albums although Imperial Bedroom is much better than Get Happy! GH just has too many good songs :) Parallel Lines too - the first UK pressing is stunningly good.

Elvis Costello often packed far too much onto a side, Spike being a very obvious example. Sounds better than it should though given it has to be best part of 30 minutes a side! Fancy DMM lathe automation I guess. Get Happy sounds way better than it should, I was surprised when I dug it out for a spin a few months ago, though they are all very short songs as I recall. IIRC mostly around the two minute mark. A fun album. My EC collection is very patchy, I’ve got the first four and Punch The Clock. I landed an absolutely mint copy of Spike when out buying a couple of days ago, I’ll almost certainly keep it as I’ve likely no chance of finding as nice copy again. Looks NOS. Wish it was a double though! Three cut sides is needed for this length.

Parallel Lines always disappointed me a little after Plastic Letters, which sounds far more alive and dynamic to me. Still good though, but PL is the Blondie I reach for. I’ve got most of the 12” singles too which are usually rather good. Roxy Music’s Avalon has always been an amazing sounding record.
 
Elvis Costello often packed far too much onto a side, Spike being a very obvious example. Sounds better than it should though given it has to be best part of 30 minutes a side!

Spike is a generic EU pressing being quite late. It was DMM and some were pressed directly at TELDEC, mine is an Alsdorf job.
 
Just picked up Harold Vick - Steppin' Out - and it's brilliant.
I've been buying quite a few TPs without knowing the album and some aren't really my thing so will be getting the heave-ho, but was really impressed by this new one.
 
Just picked up Harold Vick - Steppin' Out - and it's brilliant.
I've been buying quite a few TPs without knowing the album and some aren't really my thing so will be getting the heave-ho, but was really impressed by this new one.
If you like Stepping Out have a listen to the Big John Oh Baby in the Blue Note Classic Series if you have not already done so. Same line up, but IMHO the better of the two.
 
Just a heads up on the January TP of the John Scofield - Scohofo / Oh. I’m not the greatest fan of Scofield and have passed on the previous ones, but I really like for the most part what Lovano & Holland play including on this. Amazon have this up for preorder at £34.47 at the moment as they don’t seem to have realised it is a double at £49.99 on the Blue Note store. I’m assuming they will honour their pre order guarantee? The Donald Byrd - At The Half Note (single) is also £34.47. Both are due for release on 6th January.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0BGWZ77N9/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21
 
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First titles from the next Tone Poet batch were put up briefly on the Blue Note US store with a 3rd February release, but have now been removed as the full 2023 list that was due yesterday is delayed because the SCOHOFO double albums has caused pressing delays.
Andrew Hill - Dance With Death
Carmel Jones - The Remarkable Carmel Jones.
I’m looking forward to both, but particularly the Andrew Hill.
 
Just a heads up on the January TP of the John Scofield - Scohofo / Oh. I’m not the greatest fan of Scofield and have passed on the previous ones, but I really like for the most part what Lovano & Holland play including on this. Amazon have this up for preorder at £34.47 at the moment as they don’t seem to have realised it is a double at £49.99 on the Blue Note store. I’m assuming they will honour their pre order guarantee? The Donald Byrd - At The Half Note (single) is also £34.47. Both are due for release on 6th January.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0BGWZ77N9/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21
Damn! It’s gone up 8p! To good an offer to turn down though - thanks for the heads up.
 
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
I have many original (not necessarily 1st pressings) BNs, Japanese (various King, Toshiba) and TPs. Generally speaking, the RVGs have a more in your face sound with great dynamics and presence. I find the TPs to be very good indeed, more natural and balanced sounding and more extended at the frequency extremes. I won't describe them as having a smiley faced EQ; they only seem that way in comparison to the RVGs. I believe they actually are more representative of what is on the mastertape than the RVGs which are engineered to be 'exciting'. Which seems to be consistent with what Harley is saying.

The Japanese are more somewhere in between the two.
Following his positive opinions on the Tone Poets It seems that LJC is revising his his opinion of Japanese Blue Note reissues upwards as well now and considers that at least some may more accurately reveal what TVG recorded.
Vinyl: BLP 1541 – GXK 8134 (M) King Records, Japan 1979 Originally I had Japanese pressings marked down generally for their timidity and lack of punch compared to the American originals, and I still think that is broadly true. But, revisiting the Lee Morgan King pressings in my collection, with all the sonic improvements of the last couple of years, they have come up in my estimation. This observation is aimed at Blue Note 1500 series recordings made between 1956-58. 1500 series originals are hard-core trophy collectors territory, rare as hen’s teeth, and priced mostly in four figures. As an audiophile listener rather than a collector, I can’t compare these Lee Morgan titles exactly 1:1, but the King sound quite full in tonal range and dynamics, but not all, and not always.”
https://londonjazzcollector.wordpre...gan-vol-2-1956-blue-note1541-king-japan-1979/
I have this Lee Morgan Sextet King Pressing and it does sound excellent.
 
People seem to take LJC's word as the gospel truth but it is far from it. He's pretty dogmatic and almost always prefers originals to everything else but at least he's not afraid to revise his opinions. I do not share many of his opinions and often take what he says with a pinch of salt. Japanese pressings tend to be very high in production quality but sonics vary according to title, pressing (various Kings, Toshibas) and era, whereas LJC in the past typically dismissed them in a broad sweep...
 
I wasn’t regarding LJC’s opinions on the sound quality of originals or reissues, or even his particular Jazz likes and dislikes as truth in anyway. Far from it. I do admire his research into record labels and pressing information of original and early pressings though. I am just slightly amused that he now seems to be somewhat revising his previous pretty low opinion of almost all reissues and it seems to coincide that it appears he has been priced out of the original pressings market ;).

I have pretty much always been priced out of it accept when I bought it at time of issue and the benefits (???:rolleyes:) of age and time means they have escalated in value.
 


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