wow&flutter
pfm Member
Check out the Syrinx Le1 from that period as well, same arm as the original Datum.
Tone arm for revolver tt
- Thread starter Simon66
- Start date
Craig B
Re:trophile
Logic Datum II and IIS would require drilling the top plinth board hole out to 30.5mmØ (same 211mm pivot to spindle centres as Linn, 210.7mm specified). Also, IIRC, with the Logic arm mounting collar the 3 x bolt holes are the other way round (i.e. rotated 60º as per early Ittock, one in front, two toward the back) in order for the height adjustment set screw to be easily accessible on the RH side. I can't recall what circumference the Logic 3 x mounting bolts were on; Linn are 48mmØ relative to pivot centre, with Jelco at 48.2mmØ.
SEE Revolver Factory supplied tonearms:
- Linn Basik LV-V
- Linn Basik LV-X
- Linn Basik Plus
- Mission 774LC (Jelco OEM)
- Revolver Rebel Tonearm (none standard mount Jelco OEM)
- Revolver Tonearm (Jelco OEM)
- Revolver Super Tonearm (Jelco OEM)
https://www.vinylengine.com/tonearm...=&ohhi=&search=search&amlo=&amhi=&cw=&mp=linn
I would add to the vinylengine list Systemdek's Profile II (Jelco OEM). There was also an S-shaped version of this with universal headshell under the Profile brand for a while.
P.S. There is an obvious indicator in the picture of @Simon66's Revolver that the deck wasn't previously fitted with a Linn Basik tonearm. Anyone?
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Craig B
Re:trophile
No worries, Simon. If I were nearby, I'd be asking for first dibs.
These are quite tweak-able decks and can be brought up to very near pre-2000 Rega Planar 3 performance with an easily reversible tweak to the Noryl platter. Although not a Philips/Airpax/Premotec motor, the SAIA 120V AC unit lends itself to the same sort of external power supply upgrades. This motor was likely selected as much for its novel reversible mounting bracket arrangement (i.e. bottom plinth board mounting*), as is was for its higher RPM (i.e. facilitating outer platter rim belt drive without having to accommodate a much larger pulley).
Regardless, good luck with your hunt. Obviously, a minty used Rega 2 or 3 is well worth seeking out, however, I wouldn't turn my nose up at a fully ready to play Revolver (I've three of each here!).
* Many (including a Stereo Review reviewer) have assumed that the motor is mounted to the top plinth board, however, the black plate round the motor pulley is simply a cover over the necessarily large motor access hole in the top board.
These are quite tweak-able decks and can be brought up to very near pre-2000 Rega Planar 3 performance with an easily reversible tweak to the Noryl platter. Although not a Philips/Airpax/Premotec motor, the SAIA 120V AC unit lends itself to the same sort of external power supply upgrades. This motor was likely selected as much for its novel reversible mounting bracket arrangement (i.e. bottom plinth board mounting*), as is was for its higher RPM (i.e. facilitating outer platter rim belt drive without having to accommodate a much larger pulley).
Regardless, good luck with your hunt. Obviously, a minty used Rega 2 or 3 is well worth seeking out, however, I wouldn't turn my nose up at a fully ready to play Revolver (I've three of each here!).
* Many (including a Stereo Review reviewer) have assumed that the motor is mounted to the top plinth board, however, the black plate round the motor pulley is simply a cover over the necessarily large motor access hole in the top board.
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Craig B
Re:trophile
Sure thing, Pinky.
I you haven't done so already, first thing is to give it a proper service, including a new belt, main bearing clean and lube (same few drops of 80wt hypoid gear oil as Rega, one on the ball, two down the side of the well), and a tiny drop of motor oil into the top and bottom motor bearings (I use Singer/SAE20). Also, make sure that the main bearing nut and tonearm fasteners are reasonably tight.
After all these years, it is also good idea to have a look at the power supply components for signs of burning, cracking, etc. Should you have the bottom motor/electrics cover off to oil the motor bottom bearing anyway, you'll notice one of the circuit boards pictured below. Early models had two resistors fitted plus capacitor(s). Like Rega, later models simply had two 0.22uF caps in series, performing both voltage reduction and phase angle (i.e. direction of rotation). If yours is the earliest variant, look for what appears to be burnt rings round the middle(s) of the resistor(s), in particular. Replacement parts are very cheap and easy to solder in.
Early Revolver Motor Circuit:
Later Revolver Motor Circuit:
Last Revolver Motor Circuit:
Once fully serviced, and assuming that yours has the Noryl platter (the earliest ones were MDF), the absolute best tweak is to improve the flywheel that is the platter. Specifically, adding weight to the outer periphery. I went with using lead tape within the outer annular ring on the underside. Lead tape is commonly available in golf pro shops for weight/balance adjusting golf clubs. Not too much weight here, as there comes a point where the platters normally virtually none existent bell mode becomes excited. It is a rather dead material but too much weight round the periphery can get it going. You'll also want it perfectly balanced, a simple method being to put the deck up 90º on one side, and spin the platter slowly (with a bit of sellotape on as marker), aiming to have it always stop rotating in a random position, rather than always with the same point at the bottom, for example. Using such as 3M Command Adhesive Strips, rather than the two sided tape that comes with, allows for sections of lead tape to be easily removed and/or repositioned as necessary.
I think you will find that speed stability will be noticeably improved, especially so on such as sustained piano notes.
Colin Higham, principal of Sundown Electronic Engineering Ltd. (aka S.E.E.) must have agreed with the above, as he eventually got round to producing an optional mass ring, aptly named 'Ringo Platter Stabiliser', that fit into the outer ring of the platter's underside. This included the advantage of being designed to be self-damping so as not to excite platter resonant modes. I've not experimented with filling the outer ring with damping material, myself, as my Revolvers are now at least as good as classic glass platter Rega's when it comes to speed stability, plus I've not noticed any sound degradation that could be attributed to platter resonance. I do remain mildly disappointed that 'Ringo' didn't become a standard feature, especially so, on what was later sold as Revolver Super; essentially, the same deck but with an improved Jelco OEM called Revolver Super Tonearm (somewhat 'beefier' looking in the same kind of way as Akito Mk1 was to Basik Plus).
Enjoy experimenting!
I you haven't done so already, first thing is to give it a proper service, including a new belt, main bearing clean and lube (same few drops of 80wt hypoid gear oil as Rega, one on the ball, two down the side of the well), and a tiny drop of motor oil into the top and bottom motor bearings (I use Singer/SAE20). Also, make sure that the main bearing nut and tonearm fasteners are reasonably tight.
After all these years, it is also good idea to have a look at the power supply components for signs of burning, cracking, etc. Should you have the bottom motor/electrics cover off to oil the motor bottom bearing anyway, you'll notice one of the circuit boards pictured below. Early models had two resistors fitted plus capacitor(s). Like Rega, later models simply had two 0.22uF caps in series, performing both voltage reduction and phase angle (i.e. direction of rotation). If yours is the earliest variant, look for what appears to be burnt rings round the middle(s) of the resistor(s), in particular. Replacement parts are very cheap and easy to solder in.
Early Revolver Motor Circuit:
Later Revolver Motor Circuit:
Last Revolver Motor Circuit:
Once fully serviced, and assuming that yours has the Noryl platter (the earliest ones were MDF), the absolute best tweak is to improve the flywheel that is the platter. Specifically, adding weight to the outer periphery. I went with using lead tape within the outer annular ring on the underside. Lead tape is commonly available in golf pro shops for weight/balance adjusting golf clubs. Not too much weight here, as there comes a point where the platters normally virtually none existent bell mode becomes excited. It is a rather dead material but too much weight round the periphery can get it going. You'll also want it perfectly balanced, a simple method being to put the deck up 90º on one side, and spin the platter slowly (with a bit of sellotape on as marker), aiming to have it always stop rotating in a random position, rather than always with the same point at the bottom, for example. Using such as 3M Command Adhesive Strips, rather than the two sided tape that comes with, allows for sections of lead tape to be easily removed and/or repositioned as necessary.
I think you will find that speed stability will be noticeably improved, especially so on such as sustained piano notes.
Colin Higham, principal of Sundown Electronic Engineering Ltd. (aka S.E.E.) must have agreed with the above, as he eventually got round to producing an optional mass ring, aptly named 'Ringo Platter Stabiliser', that fit into the outer ring of the platter's underside. This included the advantage of being designed to be self-damping so as not to excite platter resonant modes. I've not experimented with filling the outer ring with damping material, myself, as my Revolvers are now at least as good as classic glass platter Rega's when it comes to speed stability, plus I've not noticed any sound degradation that could be attributed to platter resonance. I do remain mildly disappointed that 'Ringo' didn't become a standard feature, especially so, on what was later sold as Revolver Super; essentially, the same deck but with an improved Jelco OEM called Revolver Super Tonearm (somewhat 'beefier' looking in the same kind of way as Akito Mk1 was to Basik Plus).
Enjoy experimenting!
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Pinky
In suspense, not compressed
That's brilliant, thanks!
I'll have a closer look at the deck over the next few days but from memory the platter is a solid affair, presumably the MDF version of the earlier models. Any idea why the platter material was later changed?
It's sounding very good as is but a service/check up is well overdue so hopefully I can squeeze more from it.
I'll have a closer look at the deck over the next few days but from memory the platter is a solid affair, presumably the MDF version of the earlier models. Any idea why the platter material was later changed?
It's sounding very good as is but a service/check up is well overdue so hopefully I can squeeze more from it.
Craig B
Re:trophile
You're most welcome.
Another tweak that comes to mind is to give a Rega 2mm felt mat a go, sans The Pig (aka Precision Instant Grip). The carbon fibre loaded conductive 'Starmat' (aka Standard Analogue Record Mat) isn't bad, but the Rega felt always sounds better to me. A very subjective thing, but worth a try, IME. There's no need to adjust tonearm height to compensate, which is just as well, as come winter, you may want to put the Starmat back on, regardless.
Another tweak that comes to mind is to give a Rega 2mm felt mat a go, sans The Pig (aka Precision Instant Grip). The carbon fibre loaded conductive 'Starmat' (aka Standard Analogue Record Mat) isn't bad, but the Rega felt always sounds better to me. A very subjective thing, but worth a try, IME. There's no need to adjust tonearm height to compensate, which is just as well, as come winter, you may want to put the Starmat back on, regardless.
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Craig B
Re:trophile
Funny, I was going to mention using the same rules for supports as for Rega decks.
Not an acronym per se, but do you remember the 'Bullet' cartridge? The original was an AT-95E with glued in stylus assembly and Revolver badge stuck on the front. Back in my retail days, we used to glue stylus assemblies in on demo decks; as much for theft prevention, as for sound improvement.
Pinky
In suspense, not compressed
I was aware of the Revolver cartridge but didn't know it was called the Bullet - or did you make that up? 
Have you ever compared the two platters types that were used between the early/later versions of the decks? I'm curious whether there was any noticeable difference in the sound between the two or if it was simply done for manufacturing reasons/costs.
Have you ever compared the two platters types that were used between the early/later versions of the decks? I'm curious whether there was any noticeable difference in the sound between the two or if it was simply done for manufacturing reasons/costs.
Craig B
Re:trophile
That's what they called it. If you think about cartridges for revolvers, it certainly was a good name.I was aware of the Revolver cartridge but didn't know it was called the Bullet - or did you make that up?
I haven't compared them, but chances are that the Medite offers a better flywheel effect than the NORYL (sans 'Ringo'), as the latter is very light.
IIRC, when the platter was changed, as least one review (or news item) mentioned that the manufacturer had found MDF to be expensive to have cut/finished to an acceptable level. I suspect that, as the intention was to produce a lot of these decks, the high initial cost of pursuing an alternative moulded platter was deemed worthwhile. NORYL was claimed to have been chosen due to it being a very strong resin material that also possesses good self-damping properties.
Interestingly, Rega appear to have gradually followed a similar path with platter developement. Planar 1 and Planar 1 Plus, for example, boast of a 'Brand new, 23mm, higher mass, phenolic platter with improved flywheel effect for improved speed stability'. Even P78 has finally been upgraded from the old Medite platter to what appears to be the same.
With the sales volumes that Rega manages, it certainly makes sense to invest in this kind of platter technology at the lower end. In one of the recent factory tour videos, Roy Gandy mentions how many entry level decks go out the door in a month, a startlingly high number.
BTW, Revolver turntables exist(ed?) under new ownership...Revolver Audio Ltd. In addition to an array of loudspeaker models, they offer(ed) a J. A. Michell-like model call 'Replay', but have since re-introduced the old split-plinth design, now dubbed Rebel II, but with a solid acrylic platter and changeable tonearm boards (Rega vs. Jelco). Their website http://www.revolveraudio.co.uk/index.html doesn't appear to have been updated for some time so I am not sure if they are still in business. Ever since Rebel II was first listed that page has begun with 'Available NOW. Special introductory sale price (first 50) £995.00 GBP' beside which there is a 'Buy Now' button which no longer functions.
I do recall contacting them some years ago inquiring about replacement drive belts, and they did say that they could supply them.
Craig B
Re:trophile
The brand history certainly makes for interesting reading. I recall the launch of Revolver brand loudspeakers in the 90s; sticking with guns, a model called 'Purdy' comes to mind (credit: Revolver Audio Ltd.)...
HISTORY
The brand was founded by Colin and Wyn Higham in 1979. For the next 13 years or so Colin developed a small range of turntables and REVOLVER was for some years acknowledged as a significant force in this specialised area of the UK Hi-Fi market. Sixty percent of sales were made overseas, with turntables exported to fifteen countries. However, severe illness in 1990 meant Colin was no longer able to function within the company, and without his input, the company failed.
Peter Ratchford and Ray Nugent of Revolver UK Ltd bought the sole trading rights to the brand and in 1994 they launched a small range of high quality but low priced loudspeakers, manufactured for them by JPW Loudspeakers. The products were well received by both the trade and the reviewers and significant distribution was achieved. By 1996 the overseas market included more than 20 countries.
Revolver UK Ltd was then bought by an electronics company in 1998 who, for reasons of their own, shortly afterwards discontinued with the loudspeaker production. The brand name Revolver eventually became dormant.
Early in 2002 Mike Jewitt (ex Heybrook Hi Fi) and Charles Greenlees (ex JPW Loudspeakers) formed The Acoustic Partnership and in turn bought the sole trading rights to the brand “REVOLVER”.
Mike has a well established reputation as a successful loudspeaker designer, having been previously with Mordaunt Short and Canon Audio before joining Heybrook Hi Fi in 1997. Charles has been with JPW Loudspeakers from the start and was involved with the purchasing and production of their own products and those of the myriad of OEM brands that they produced during the 1990’s.
The new range of REVOLVER loudspeakers produced by The Acoustic Partnership has been specially designed and created for use with both quality Audio and/or Home Cinema systems, with products voiced for both music and movies. All design, development and production is based in the United Kingdom.
From January 2012 Graeme Holland (of Audion) has taken over directorship of REVOLVER and will be adding his unique signature to the REVOLVER brand.
The brand was founded by Colin and Wyn Higham in 1979. For the next 13 years or so Colin developed a small range of turntables and REVOLVER was for some years acknowledged as a significant force in this specialised area of the UK Hi-Fi market. Sixty percent of sales were made overseas, with turntables exported to fifteen countries. However, severe illness in 1990 meant Colin was no longer able to function within the company, and without his input, the company failed.
Peter Ratchford and Ray Nugent of Revolver UK Ltd bought the sole trading rights to the brand and in 1994 they launched a small range of high quality but low priced loudspeakers, manufactured for them by JPW Loudspeakers. The products were well received by both the trade and the reviewers and significant distribution was achieved. By 1996 the overseas market included more than 20 countries.
Revolver UK Ltd was then bought by an electronics company in 1998 who, for reasons of their own, shortly afterwards discontinued with the loudspeaker production. The brand name Revolver eventually became dormant.
Early in 2002 Mike Jewitt (ex Heybrook Hi Fi) and Charles Greenlees (ex JPW Loudspeakers) formed The Acoustic Partnership and in turn bought the sole trading rights to the brand “REVOLVER”.
Mike has a well established reputation as a successful loudspeaker designer, having been previously with Mordaunt Short and Canon Audio before joining Heybrook Hi Fi in 1997. Charles has been with JPW Loudspeakers from the start and was involved with the purchasing and production of their own products and those of the myriad of OEM brands that they produced during the 1990’s.
The new range of REVOLVER loudspeakers produced by The Acoustic Partnership has been specially designed and created for use with both quality Audio and/or Home Cinema systems, with products voiced for both music and movies. All design, development and production is based in the United Kingdom.
From January 2012 Graeme Holland (of Audion) has taken over directorship of REVOLVER and will be adding his unique signature to the REVOLVER brand.
Craig B
Re:trophile
So, I just went to the Spares and Service section of the site and clicked on 'Add to Cart' for 'Rebel Drivebelt £20.95'. Up came a bonafide PayPal transaction page which has a link at the bottom stating 'Cancel and return to Audion' which took me back to http://www.revolveraudio.com/partsbuyfail.html displaying a message saying 'You cancelled your order'.
I'll drop them an e-mail tomorrow to confirm whether or not following through will actually result in a properly sized drive belt winging its way across the pond.
P.S. I'm also curious about the item listed as Rebel Cartridge £38.00. The Rebels they had at the local dealer had yellow audio-technica CN5625AL on (aka ye olde alloy cantilevered AT-91). 38 notes would be taking the piss for one of these, but hey, there's the gun calibre tie in to consider, and 22 just isn't butch enough, whereas, 45 would be outright Butch Cassidy, Colt .45, highway robbery style.
P.P.S. That reminds me, the smallest of the mid-90s Revolver 'speakers was called 'Colt'.
I'll drop them an e-mail tomorrow to confirm whether or not following through will actually result in a properly sized drive belt winging its way across the pond.
P.S. I'm also curious about the item listed as Rebel Cartridge £38.00. The Rebels they had at the local dealer had yellow audio-technica CN5625AL on (aka ye olde alloy cantilevered AT-91). 38 notes would be taking the piss for one of these, but hey, there's the gun calibre tie in to consider, and 22 just isn't butch enough, whereas, 45 would be outright Butch Cassidy, Colt .45, highway robbery style.
P.P.S. That reminds me, the smallest of the mid-90s Revolver 'speakers was called 'Colt'.
Pinky
In suspense, not compressed
Yes, it would be good to know if they are still trading.
I wondered about the Rebel cartridge too. Could be old stock of the trusty old AT95e or perhaps the newer VM version. Or perhaps it's something that's no longer available seeing as the whole site appears to be out of date.
For their best cartridge offering I'd suggest the Magnum - at £45 of course
I wondered about the Rebel cartridge too. Could be old stock of the trusty old AT95e or perhaps the newer VM version. Or perhaps it's something that's no longer available seeing as the whole site appears to be out of date.
For their best cartridge offering I'd suggest the Magnum - at £45 of course